From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
DigitalWhiteByte ·
Requests relating to the essential features to eliminate the known limits of SYNTHMAKER.
In my opinion this is the case, but without repeating the things said by other people, so as to develop a serious list of known bugs and features to implement, but as I say essential, not progressive .... for now.
MichaelBenjamin ·
~ stream to midi module ~ sqrt, pow, abs, sgn for the codebox ~ double precision floats in code
infuzion ·
+ better green timing, or tighter triggering to Stream + VST2.4 support, or better yet VST3.1 SDK which is automatically backwards compatible + SSE3 & 4; needed for some effects, better to use 64bit audio for some other effects than oversampling. At least add to ASM primitive & a few key primitives, then we can make modules to do the rest. + reduced GUI CPU usage. There are many workarounds, but not easy for a SM novice.
kirkagur ·
+mem input + mem output from code. +deactivate parts of code to free some cpu inside the code module!(like a selector). +more poly voice access. +improve the buses. +wav,mp3,flac file read & write (32bit files).
aliasant ·
+Green Code primitive +Bugfree triggers that dont get lost. +All the new Audio related primitives that Flowstone now has. +Double, Quad etc Mono to Graph/Float primitives. (same as Flowstone has) +New Improved or better, redesigned Toolbox
Tom7777 ·
+Sub folders in the toolbox
exonerate ·
Improvement to the code component (sqrt ,pow, exp,abs ect...) Flowstone has sqrt now so I'm certain we'll see that in next release. I think the synthmaker team should spend a good few hours just on the code component getting all these basic functions implemented for the next release.
Improvements to the Assembler component (Basically all the sse opcodes implemented)
These I think are attainable for the next release and I would be more than happy to pay an update fee to see them implemented.
Of course then I want the usual "green code component" and accurate events. But I'm not expecting anything like that until version 2.
Cheers 😉
Exo
trogluddite ·
Just a few that I think are realistic in the short term (in no particular order of preference)...
-Assembler syntax to check variable names & labels like the code prim does. -mono4 as an explicit input/output type for code/asm -mono4 boolean data type. -Real-time disk streaming. -exe export support for multichannel audio -Schematic search for modules, wireless links etc. by name/type -Dockable palette or drop list showing currently available wireless links -Read system variable primitive -Test Probe window - choose links anywhere in a schematic to have their values/trigger-count shown in real time for bug tracing etc. -Signal Trace - input a trigger at any point in a schematic, and see exactly where it goes by highlighting links. -'Global' wireless links - have the option to send/receive regardless of module parent/child relationships -User definable shortcut keys.
Ok, so I got greedy! - but looking again at my list, these would all add to FlowStone too. IMO some 'debugging tools' are a real necessity if it's to be taken seriously as a graphical programming environment.
nix ·
trogluddite wrote: -exe export support for multichannel audio
This is vital. So nice that SM is going to continue!
tor ·
I would love to be able to search through a schematic. Standard F3 to walk through the matching items. I find it strange that this feature is not yet implemented as it is standard in most aplications. Would be great to go directly to a primitive or module with a sertain name or find a type primitive. The search would be best if it was narrowed down in the hierarchy.
😉
Mo ·
-Default preset manager bug fix. -Disc streaming. -Midi event stream trigger. -Improve image rescaling/resampling if possible, as images gets very blurry at higher zoom levels than default. -Improve search function. -Open last saved.
aliasant ·
I got a couple more that came to mind.
+Wireless In icon on modules. Same as it now has an icon that tells us if the module has wireless going out and if its active or not.
+Restart Schematic for trigger/bug tracking. Now I have to save, close and then open a schematic to see what actually happens when it is first launched. A simple button that does that for us would be nice.
+Option to save/not save the file/s contained in eg. the Wavefile primitive. Now the osm. gets uneccessary big. A simple bool to turn that of/primitive would work well.
A note. Try not to list what others already has. Maybe the topic starter can make a clean list of what we got so far?
Disco_Steve ·
mem in + out in the code. tick100 that gives still gives equiverlent to 100 ticks when running in greater than real time ie durring bounce. currently lots of my things work fine in real time, the green not being exact is fine thanks to the existance of blue, but durring bounce downs, it all goes tits up 🙁 all audio and video related flowstone newbies moved over to SM too 🙂
aliasant ·
Another thing that is high on my list:
+ Windows Phone 7 export. Should be fairly easy atleast compared to Android and iPhone export.
rl ·
(ok, there are doubles, but..)
- sample precise timing
- FOR loops and branches (if, then, else) in C code module (i've no problem if there would be a non-sse code module)
- full support for double
- Float Array or Memory input/output for code module !!!!!
- Code module for green and V-data (like the uber-great lua module from the 2.0 prototype). Do it in Lua, in Ruby or whatever, but DO it.
- voice management!!! create and access indiv. channels
- read/write and process binary files!!!
- basic support for multitouch windows events (yes, I have a multitouch-able computer now). Should at least support more than one mouse drag at the same time and basic swipe gestures
- some sort of library system: export schematic or part of schematic as a module to a ascii readable format that can be included in other schematics. If I change the module, the other schematics will get updated too.
- and last but not least: a software development kit. As an easy start, a non-realtime SDK that runs in the GUI thread would be sufficient
?how much does a sourcecode license of synthmaker cost?
theun ·
Hi, I'm back here!
Though I have checked this board almost on a daily basis I guess I haven't posted here for a long time. I still like the graphical way of programming of SM a lot. However I slowly lost interest because there are too many real show stoppers. The two main show stoppers (for the kind of applications I want to make) are:
a) timing system (I'm working on sequencer-like stuff for algorithmic composition techniques)
b) vst sdk 2.4 or higher compliancy missing (so you cannot guarantee a vsti or vst will work in any daw/sequencer)
There are many other wishes or (minor) bugs, however in most cases more experienced users are able to invent workarounds where neccesary, however for the two problems listed above there are no workarounds.......
Further, to my opinion the status of the documentation is a shame, e.g. all components introduced after 1.0 are still missing in the component reference.
regards to all, theun
mwvdlee ·
Most importantly... * The three bugs listed in my signature. * As many other bugfixes as possible. * Support for the most common host applications. * Improved stability to a level where you can use it for live performance (from what I can tell, this has mostly to do with memory management issues; S|M doesn't seem to deal well with memory-to-disk swapping). I can't stress enough how important it is to have a solid foundation before adding features.
As for features, I'm really looking forward to having the audio device selectors available in FlowStone. Since they already exist, I'm assuming they'll be in the next release so no point in putting it on my wishlist. Other than that... * The ability to disable the zoom and use the scrollwheel for something else. (I'd rather have the zoom functionality removed completely from the editor as well, but that's unlikely to happen.) * Ability to disable the menu in compiled .EXE's completely. Perhaps Flowstone can already do this? * More ASM commands; this should be trivial to implement and allow the developers to create many of the items on other people's wishlists. * Shared memory for the poly's; basically like the blue memory write, but for polies. * Better multicore support. S|M only seems to use one core, even though it has atleast two threads. I don't like my sound getting choppy when it's only using 50% of total CPU performance.
Obviously many more additional features would be welcome, but I'd be more than happy with just the first list. I wouldn't pay for an upgrade if the first four points weren't addressed properly. I'm pretty sure most people will gladly place those points prior to whatever wishlist they posted here, albeit with perhaps a different preference as to which bugs to fix first 😉 It's rather pointless having cool features when the platform they depend upon isn't dependable.
In fact, forget all the previous stuff; here's what I'd pay for: * Bugfixes * Stability * Compatibility AFTER those are addressed, I'd gladly pay for features. But until then, new features are just a waste of time AFAIC.
exonerate ·
@mwvdlee regarding the issues in your signature..... In flowstone there is a component which lets you choose the delimiter for a string array, I tried it and you can use commas in the string no problem.
Also in flowstone the shell execute has a new input to "run in background, ie don't wait for completion" not sure if that is related to your issue?
Not sure about the other issue in your sig, but you could always load up flowstone and test it.
Cheers 😉
Exo
Andrew J ·
rl wrote: - basic support for multitouch windows events (yes, I have a multitouch-able computer now). Should at least support more than one mouse drag at the same time and basic swipe gestures
Cue Pablo!
rl wrote: ?how much does a sourcecode license of synthmaker cost?
Ooh-er!
mwvdlee ·
exonerate wrote: @mwvdlee regarding the issues in your signature..... In flowstone there is a component which lets you choose the delimiter for a string array, I tried it and you can use commas in the string no problem.
Also in flowstone the shell execute has a new input to "run in background, ie don't wait for completion" not sure if that is related to your issue?
Not sure about the other issue in your sig, but you could always load up flowstone and test it.
Yup, those two fixes seem to be just right. Haven't tested the shell exec, but I have faith in that it works. That just leaves the enveloppe control and obviously stability and compatibility for me. Starting to look good 🙂
trogluddite ·
Something inspired by the ongoing 'better green timing debate...
Green is good for infrequent, unpredictable events (i.e. user interaction); no triggers=no CPU load, great! However, the CPU overhead of tracking triggers makes it unsuited to 'medium speed' predictable regular events (i.e. sequencers etc.) - using hopping on streams is a much more efficient way to deal with that kind of event while lowering CPU load...
...but currently only code/asm geeks can hop... (must be the deep vein thrombosis you get from sitting stationary in front of a PC too long LOL)
...so how about a 'Hop Module' - a module container that hops any stream components that you place inside it!
Add that to an accurate Stream to MIDI primitive and maybe we can kill the lumpy sequencer timing debate once and for all.
Of course, we may also need stream equivalents of a few of the 'Green Only' primitives (counters etc.) to make life easier for newcomers - but as the 'Developers Toolkit' and 'Missing Links' collections show, there are enough SM power users here to construct most of that stuff without breaking a sweat.
mwvdlee ·
trogluddite wrote: Add that to an accurate Stream to MIDI primitive and maybe we can kill the lumpy sequencer timing debate once and for all.
Perfect green timing would require a real-time operating system, which Windows (or OS-X or vanilla Linux for that matter) isn't. It might be improved, but would never be accurate (or reliable) enough. As I stated before, I think most of the trouble with "green timing" comes from the inability to output accurate MIDI (if anybody else has a good reason for wanting perfect "green timing", then please explain), which would be better served with a Stream-to-MIDI component.
tektoog ·
I'd like to be abe to do web stuffs... SM is good for graphic I think...It coud be really used as a kind of Flash graphic tool to implement audio widgets or quickly design web menus, tabs, or just background graphics... I already used some graphics I made with SM in my website (frames and background)... I' m kind of frustrated as I tried so many ways to incorporate my Psy-Radio Selector ... [old link] ... but with no success... There is absolutely no ways (at least to my knowledge) to insert an .Exe in a web page (question of security breach...) So an export format like JS (Jquery) for web implementation would be also very welcome...
But it's just a thought....
Disco_Steve ·
I think that is more of another SM spin off, but I love the idea!!
Tzarls ·
mwvdlee wrote: I (if anybody else has a good reason for wanting perfect "green timing", then please explain)
FFT (and/or convolution) using the included green primitives comes to mind.
ccpurno ·
I think full Cubase support (= update vst spec) and better support for sequencers and midi arps should be top prio. (and of course fixing bugs without workarounds)
But I'd like to suggest a fair voting system for choosing the focus points of this payed upgrade. Check: http://uservoice.com/?referer_type=powe ... loc=bottom
CC
Cyforce ·
- better filters, also with slope-choice - more effects - better poly-to-midi modul with more option - sample-container alà sf2/nki with much space for customizing
adamszabo ·
Id love to have the option of the preset manager also using .fxp and .fxb, as thats the vst standard.
Also, it would be great if we could have two schematic windows, like I zoom in the module deep, and in the other window I zoom out to my knob, and if I turn my know I can see that's happening deep inside. It would really help development.
AndydeMaro ·
- Adding new Compilersystem VST2.4/3.0. - Mousewheel Support - DSP_Framework - More Commands ASM SSE4
trogluddite ·
-Proper handling of PC keyboard events.
kirkagur ·
anther few.....
*option to rename each parameter in the vst parameter array. *wavetable osc with array mem input. *user define keyboard shortcuts .
treacherousumbrella ·
Blue FFT would definitely be appreciated 🙂 Also any additional features added to the code module, Sqrt, Power etc A memory input for the code module for accessing external arrays would also be great
McBarGig ·
-Anything that allows us to load externally written code! That would be my #1 priority because if need be, all the processing can be done in external DLL files. Its does not matter about too much else after that. Anything that SM does not handle the way you want it to, Like simple parsing, and having to shell out to use the Registry, etc can all be written in external libs.
I would gladly pay for SM again if that were to happen, SM as a front end and prototyping tool has really saved me a lot of time..
However, I gotta ask the question, is Outsim actually doing anything with SM anymore or has it become a dead software? I just don't really see any activity on it anymore..
lalo ·
- OSC ( open sound control ) support - Sample precise timing for green data type - code module for green data
DigitalWhiteByte ·
let's add a little bit, since it has been tested with Flowstone you can have support for any external dll for complex calculations or for expansion, it would be nice to have a form of development for the bow external library, so:
- External DLL support
attic ·
My two cents. 1 voice management! 2 Better Poly to midi. 3 more poly voice access 4 External dll support 5 Mp3 support like flowstone. 6 Better communication with forum from Malc. 😈
McBarGig ·
DigitalWhiteByte wrote: let's add a little bit, since it has been tested with Flowstone you can have support for any external dll for complex calculations or for expansion, it would be nice to have a form of development for the bow external library, so:
- External DLL support
It has been tested with flowstone? I did not know that, I have been asking for this since the first week I have been using SM... YES WE NEED THIS!!!!
DigitalWhiteByte ·
One more?
- Network Capability (Network capability, to get the support of the OSC for MIDI transport.)
- Audio Device - Audio Selector (Old request of many users)
-Set Sample Rate for audio device
(Of course already present in Flowstone.)
mwvdlee ·
DigitalWhiteByte wrote: One more?
- Network Capability (Network capability, to get the support of the OSC for MIDI transport.)
- Audio Device - Audio Selector (Old request of many users)
-Set Sample Rate for audio device
(Of course already present in Flowstone.)
Aren't ALL of these in FlowStone right now?
Iman ·
"option to set reference freqs for 12 basic notes in "Voice to Poly" or "MIDI to Poly" in order to create new tunning for instrument
*option to save zoom level in *.exe file
*Wireless link manager (search,rename,find duplicate and listing for wireless sources and destinations in OSM)
*Fixing Preset manger Bug in Cubase 5.x
Jay ·
Futile this list is! 😠
Why are we all creating this list? I added to it also but, i have re-read what was said by ADMIN and as afaik the new Paid for update will be only some of the Flowstone gear added to what we already have. Which is great as the stuff they have created is real cool.I can not see anywhere it said that they (Outsim) would work on new stuff for the update.
So why are we making this list?
Is it in the hope that someone actually takes notice and listens to the community for once and eventually one day we get these required features? all be it VST standard is on its way out!
Where is this "to be released soon" update? How long should pass before the statement "to be released soon" becomes derelict? already derelict afaiac!
money waiting! no promised update yet! So what is happening apart from massive input into the new product?
With respect! we need answers and product not unfulfilled statements of intent.
Jay
mwvdlee ·
Jay wrote: So why are we making this list?
I think it's just a form of venting frustration; letting the world know what missing features frustrate us the most. If I could have ONE feature request, it would be to have (closed) access to the sourcecode so I could fix stuff myself. Realistically though, we're at the mercy of developers who seem to have moved their focus elsewhere.
Also; I find it interresting to see what kind of stuff people list here; gives an insight in how they are using S|M.
Jay ·
Aha ha! thats what i thought mwvdlee 🙂
As for the "Soon" update, was it simply damage limitation do you think? I.e keep us happy so we don't all start grumbling all over the new products site about how we (The SM community) were shit all over from a great height ? 😠
or do you think that they are being honest,there is and always was an update and that Santa will be delivering it soon? 😀
lol that should be a Poll ^^
I really do wonder what is the holdup,how can they get stuff out so quick for Flowstone but not SM 😠
Meanwhile back at the ranch..........Jay fed Outsims details into his copy of LEADNETPRO and set the system for 1500 mails an hour,with the question - Where is our update? 😉
Best Regards Jay
MichaelBenjamin ·
hmm, yes. for me so far sm 1.1.7 is still a very useful tool to do experiments and general dsp stuff, but i have somehow accepted that it wont be developed further and i dont expect anything. however if it should really get the mentioned updates, i would be very gladly surprised.
Jay ·
FlowStone is on the undernet and floating about as an internal release by a lead oday Team 😈 So no doubt it will get dumped to p2p shortly.
I can't help this time nor do i know any of them and since i have retired from "running" i have no voice on the scene now.
Given the current climate round here i don't think i would be inclined to intervene anyway.
Lol and no! before anyone pms me i won't get you a copy 😀
Best regards
MichaelBenjamin ·
i just looked at the flowstone forum and its still empty. i dont know how an active community correlates to the sucess of a software, but i cant deny a special relationship, (look at the reaper forum for example). so if anything with sm on hold since a year(?) and this forum slowly drying out i only can point this out to maybe give some obviously needed initiative on the developers side again. and no marketing please. best would be some words from malc to clear things up.
aliasant ·
MichaelBenjamin wrote: i just looked at the flowstone forum and its still empty. i dont know how an active community correlates to the sucess of a software, but i cant deny a special relationship, (look at the reaper forum for example). so if anything with sm on hold since a year(?) and this forum slowly drying out i only can point this out to maybe give some obviously needed initiative on the developers side again. and no marketing please. best would be some words from malc to clear things up.
I think they made a serious misstake thinking they could split this up into 2 different products and forums. That just weakens an already weak platform by 2 leaving us not knowing what plattform to stand on. Were is the train coming if it ever is coming.....
I wish they could just admit the misstake and tell us all they are sorry about it and get back to 1 product, 1 forum and 1 userbase. Work from there. We all would be very happy and the forum would get back to life in no time and new users would flood in.
I guess one major problem for the Flowstone guy is that he doesnt want to fight the VST support war. There might be something to the way SM is programmed that makes it really hard to update VST to 3.0 or atleast 2.4. SM is a great platform as long as you dont focus on Synthmaking 😉
If this is the case ( or similar) I hope they will bite the sour apple and do it the hard way. Fix the VST problem and get back on track.
All of us that has the Full SM license gets the full "NEW" product minus maybe the extra inputs and outputs that makes Flowstone special but no damn primitives limitation. This might be something we normal users would consider paying an update fee of, say 2euros ( Me wishing,,, poor sob) to get. I might do that since I have started dreaming of building a home controlling thing for lights, tv and espresso machine 🙂.
Those that currently have the cheapo SM license gets a cheapo "NEW" SM/Flowstone license.
The important thing is to have 1/ONE userbase and forum with as much activity as possible. That is very attractive and will bring lots of new paying customers.
Nu Audio Science ·
I think people are forgetting the FLS issue here I would assume that when they made a deal with IL that they agreed to keep SM alive So now i am also going to assume that SM will be kept alive just for that and all we will get is hand me downs from Flowstone and from the only thing they have said on the forum here, we will be asked to pay for these hand me downs
SM has been dead for a long time now really in terms of development It works for a lot of stuff , we got what we paid for, It's a great toy/fixer in the studio, so i think we can all be happy
NAS
MegaHurtz ·
Yea its been about a year or so.. Although ive always been very happy with this product. Especially malc being here to debug it and all.
aliasant ·
Nu Audio Science wrote: I think people are forgetting the FLS issue here I would assume that when they made a deal with IL that they agreed to keep SM alive So now i am also going to assume that SM will be kept alive just for that and all we will get is hand me downs from Flowstone and from the only thing they have said on the forum here, we will be asked to pay for these hand me downs
SM has been dead for a long time now really in terms of development It works for a lot of stuff , we got what we paid for, It's a great toy/fixer in the studio, so i think we can all be happy
NAS
I didnt forget it. Just neglegted it 😉 I really hope they didnt make a contract like that. Would be more natural to state in the contract that they will run SM on a yearly basis and maybe something about, if Outsim wants to drop development or goes bankrupt IL has the right to buy it or something. That deal was made some years back now I think. Is it 2? That should mean that they should have renegotiated it once or that there is one upcoming. Shouldnt be a problem to let IL buy a license to use it that includes forum rights of some sort for its FL users.
Even if it is as you think, SM is kept alive for that reason only. To keep IL happy. Then Outsim and DSP Robotics are truly shooting themselves not just in the feets but in other more sensitive parts too.
MegaHurtz ·
They seem to have reserved the right to develop it in any direction they want to. For a hand full of people its hardly worth the efford tho..
aliasant ·
MegaHurtz wrote: They seem to have reserved the right to develop it in any direction they want to. For a hand full of people its hardly worth the efford tho..
Odd.
MegaHurtz ·
Only im not in the inner circle so who knows??
trogluddite ·
I already tried hassling OutSim/Malc about SM development, so I'm gonna write a nice letter to Santa Claus this year instead. Hopefully that will be more successful (I have been a really really good boy this year!)
My only hope is that it's "no news is good news" because Malc is so busy. Porting a few FlowStone devices into SM would surely be a simple task, given that they share a code base, so why so long to wait? Let's hope that the delay means that a few SM specific upgrades are in the pipeline (Wow, turning 40 sure made me an optimist all of a sudden!)
exonerate ·
I was told about 5 weeks ago that the SM update was due in about 2-3 weeks. So they are running behind I hope it's because some significant improvements are being made. I can't see just moving some of the Flowstone stuff over taking so long.
Cheers 😉
Exo
MegaHurtz ·
exonerate wrote: I was told about 5 weeks ago that the SM update was due in about 2-3 weeks. So they are running behind I hope it's because some significant improvements are being made. I can't see just moving some of the Flowstone stuff over taking so long.
Cheers 😉
Exo
Better late than broken 😉,
rl ·
ok, I've seen the 2.0 feature list right now. Looks rather like a little V 1.2 upgrade to me than a major 2.0 version. Pity there was SMX years ago that raised expectations that never could be delivered....
To state my disappointment: SM is considering itself a 'synthmaking' toolkit, but: - is missing audio codecs - cannot write audio files - cannot read or write midi files - cannot be used to build sequenzers, algorithmic music machines,... due to flaky timing - has zero support for OSC - (and is miles away from being a development tool)
Tzarls ·
I kind of agree..... this is more like a 1.2.....maybe 1.5 version? To call it V2..... I don´t know. I mean, sure I´ll buy it, but then I´ll till continue coding in C++, because V2 doesn´t help me with my "I want to delay MIDI events" stuff.
kirkagur ·
I want to cry... I wish that some time I will get the mem input for the code component .
Andrew J ·
It's progress, and it is not expensive - so smiles from me 🙂
Tzarls ·
The included multisample with velocity layers looks nice. Now, velocity layers were totlly doable before this update (I even had some kind of round-robbing thing going on) but this new feature + SFZ support looks very interesting...
Funny to see that the R&D components are still R&D.... 😕
kirkagur ·
Andrew J wrote: It's progress, and it is not expensive - therefore I will not be ________ 🙂
if its an open to a new way, a way of constant updates and improvements then its more then great and I will stop ______ 🙂 😊
MichaelBenjamin ·
i got the update and its definately not 2.0, more like 1.1.85 - 1.1.9 but somewhat ok for the asked price. (in goodwill i named the install folder synthmaker1.25). the sfz thing of what i thought would be some compressed soundfont embedding (i could have looked it up before) left me a bit unimpressed, since its only a text file loader primitive that passes its data to a multisampler build which could aswell be realized with 1.1.7. the pow sqrt abs and sign are good. some other high level modules are also there but i am not much interested into these.
btw the 2.0 install screws up the hom modules lookup in your program files/synthmaker1.1.7/modules/user, probably by overwriting the registry for both versions so that the old version doesnt look them up anymore, and i had to go to that stupid users/me/(hidden)AppData/roaming/whatevermicrosoftuselesssubfolder/synthmaker/modules/... and copy them there, increasing overall clutter.
attic ·
How is the MIDI to Multi Voice working with samples?
MichaelBenjamin ·
the midi multi voice is the same like in the "hidden" hex version, with one or two added (renamed) inputs. seems useful, but i did not really check them out yet, as i recently ignored voice stealing issues with setting a high enough poly.
Andrew J ·
kirkagur wrote: Andrew J wrote: It's progress, and it is not expensive - therefore I will not be whinging 🙂
if its an open to a new way, a way of constant updates and improvements then its more then great and I will stop whinging 🙂 😊
Argh, you quoted me just before I edited to get rid of "whinging". Didn't want people to feel like I'm criticising them for being passionate about SM! 🙂
The big deal for me is that things are happening again, and that is good.
djbrynte ·
Did some one mention for mac?
Also why not add an real unison mode to it?
aliasant ·
Andrew J wrote: The big deal for me is that things are happening again, and that is good.
Yes indeed. If some of the last remaining bugs has been fixed as stated this might be a great restart for SM. Hopefully we wont have to wait years to get new primitives now that there are 2 guys programming. They have lately done much more then Malc has alone for many many years. That is promising for sure! 🙂
tor ·
aliasant wrote: Andrew J wrote: The big deal for me is that things are happening again, and that is good.
Yes indeed. If some of the last remaining bugs has been fixed as stated this might be a great restart for SM. Hopefully we wont have to wait years to get new primitives now that there are 2 guys programming. They have lately done much more then Malc has alone for many many years. That is promising for sure! 🙂
Thumbs up for this 🙂
adamszabo ·
ah I upgraded, and I really wished for .fxp as an option for saving presets 🙁
Tom7777 ·
Tom7777 wrote: +Sub folders in the toolbox
I agree with what rl said. It looks like V2 has some good updates but it did not have a lot that interested me and currently i probably won't upgrade because the main reason is i find the toolbox is too un-organized still. It has been a while since there was any big updates so i also want to see if developments continue.
I can't see Sub folders listed so i am guessing it was not added, kind of sad really because i have been doing less audio stuff recently and this was my main request which i first asked for around 2006 or maybe before that and have bumped the request quite a lot also.
trogluddite ·
Tom7777 wrote: i find the toolbox is too un-organized still
If that is the main update you're after, best to stick to SM1.1.7 - the SM2 copies it's toolbox from FlowStone, which IMO makes it worse - for example, FX/Envelopes/Oscillators and more all end up in one big folder called 'DSP'. I'm still trying to tidy up the mess that this has made of my toolbox (custom modules have kept the old folder names) There are also issues with higher GUI CPU usage, and flaky MIDI response for synths.
Tzarls ·
So in the end, what does SM2 have that makes it superior to 1.1.7? I mean, yes, you have improved compatiblity with certain hosts... but you can´t make a VSTi because it drops some MIDI notes. And the CPU usage is higher. And there are some stage[2] issues. And still not accurate green timing. This feels like a step backwards, to a date even before 1.1.2, don´t you think?
Shifrin ·
Tzarls wrote: So in the end, what does SM2 have that makes it superior to 1.1.7? I mean, yes, you have improved compatiblity with certain hosts... but you can´t make a VSTi because it drops some MIDI notes. And the CPU usage is higher. And there are some stage[2] issues. And still not accurate green timing. This feels like a step backwards, to a date even before 1.1.2, don´t you think?
That's exactly why I haven't even bothered upgrading to 2.0... I'll keep 1.1.7 for prototyping algorithms.
Shif.
Tom7777 ·
trogluddite wrote: If that is the main update you're after, best to stick to SM1.1.7 - the SM2 copies it's toolbox from FlowStone, which IMO makes it worse - for example, FX/Envelopes/Oscillators and more all end up in one big folder called 'DSP'. I'm still trying to tidy up the mess that this has made of my toolbox (custom modules have kept the old folder names) There are also issues with higher GUI CPU usage, and flaky MIDI response for synths.
Thanks for the info, it sounds like V2 would create even more problems for me then. I mostly just code and do non audio based projects these days although this update had me interested but me upgrading was mainly depending on if the GUI got improved.
I would have to agree with what others have said though as it seems like there is a load of new bugs and the GUI sounds like a step backwards. I didn't like having no sub folders before so if it's just large folders of modules now that seems like a huge problem.
theun ·
Reading
Tzarls wrote: So in the end, what does SM2 have that makes it superior to 1.1.7? (.....) This feels like a step backwards (....) don´t you think?
and some similar reactions here .... I can't disagree, however at least SM isn't dead yet! I hope there'll be an update with fixes soon.
McBarGig ·
I am ok with this update, you're right its probably not version 2, but there is progress, meaning that at least Malc is doing something to it...I was sure that SM was gone! As others have said, its not like its 300 pounds..its only 20...We spend more than that on a night out or burgers at Mickey D's..
McBarGig ·
MichaelBenjamin wrote: i just looked at the flowstone forum and its still empty. i dont know how an active community correlates to the sucess of a software, but i cant deny a special relationship, (look at the reaper forum for example). so if anything with sm on hold since a year(?) and this forum slowly drying out i only can point this out to maybe give some obviously needed initiative on the developers side again. and no marketing please. best would be some words from malc to clear things up.
I know of a company that has well over a million users and their forums have like 700 members..It depends on the software, if the software is something where the user would need support in a direct way, then the forum will be busy. If it something where the software really does not need any support then the forum will be a lot less busy..
Having said that, yes FS would be something where the user would need direct support, so, it does paint a bit of a picture, but then again, there is also the difference between a social based software and a "work related" software. FS would definitely fall under the work related category, and what that means is, if you work all day programming machines, the last thing you're gonna do is go hang out at a forum and talk about it..
I used to be heavily involved in developing Industrial Automation software. When I saw that Outsim was getting involved in that, my initial thought was, yep, that would work extremely well, good call. Then I thought back to when I was in it and my next thought was better them than me..Its a really tough go especially when most hardware manufacturers have their own proprietary development environments.
trogluddite ·
McBarGig wrote: .Its a really tough go especially when most hardware manufacturers have their own proprietary development environments.
A shame really, the SM/FS environment is so nice - but yes, they're up against some well established competition. And personally I've seen the BSOD on too many ATMs, 'Interactive' museum exhibits, rail station notice boards etc. to ever trust a Windows based platform running expensive industrial processes or critical laboratory experiments!!
McBarGig ·
Windows for industrial processes can be a bit scary if you don't have all your safeguards in place. I never relied on our programming alone to control machinery in hazardous situations, that would be suicide...As a matter of fact I was once hired to re-write/repair a system where a guy was crushed by a train because the developer relied on his programming alone to trigger a shut down from a proxy switch. I myself would have lost my hand were it not for an AB SLC 500 stopping a press. So, you're completely right, anyone who develops industrial apps and relies on windows programming alone to control the machinery is a fool. You can't even do that anymore here. You have to have Multiple control, however, even before that was law, I still never relied on windows...Look at the freaking timers! I can see it, press is coming down, someone is in the way, switch is sending the message like mad to the system stop stop..Windows reply, hang on a minute I'm reorganizing my fonts! I'll get to it when I get to it...Until then wait your turn...haha
Almost all communication with machinery back then was through RS232 or if the hardware was a little savvy, you would get to communicate through the parallel port. But really, it was mostly DOS programming back in them days which was a little safer than windows...
Man I'm glad I am not doing that anymore..haha
Tom7777 ·
You could also do most of what Flowstone does for free with code based apps but all the apps i have seen just have a code editor and don't have a nice GUI to work with. One thing Flowstone could do better though is advance the coding options it has.
I say that because with SM the coding is limited due to the VST SDK and it is based around audio DSP but with Flowstone you would not have that restriction and could do much more. In fact without the VST restrictions Flowstone could become quite a decent visual programming app. Right now it seems just like SM with the addition of some extra hardware modules but if they add more things like better code options, graphics and GUI stuff it could be really great in the future.
Edit - And of course if more modules are added they would also need to update the toolbox to have sub-folders etc like SM needs to make it more user friendly and organized... 🙂
electrogear ·
Gutted that the green timing issues haven't been sorted. This is what I've been holding out for the last... 3 and a half years, (since I left these parts). I will pay the £20 just to see what's new with it, I think it's worth it, however I'd rather have paid a £50 upgrade and had all of the major issues addressed (for me the green timing issue was right at the top of the list).
Sorry about the negativity, I think now we have 2 devs and taking into account the importance of accurate timing in some industrial applications, there's a greater likelihood that this will be sorted.
MegaHurtz ·
Do me a low level way of making a gui and im a happy man. promise 🙂
My life hasn't been the same since I was ignored by aliens 🙁 Haha where they mean or yust indifferent?
McBarGig ·
I have proposed in the past that SM simply spits out C++ code for the GUI and the framework. I would not actually care that it saves as a vst. Once you have that framework prototype complete you just go in and fill in the blanks.. Where you would have a filter for example, the code would be like this in that section.
//place filter code here
The class names would be the name of the filter in SM..
an application like that would be fantastic and I bet you'd see the SM sales go way up. It would go a long way to answering a lot of questions, supporting further development, Our own optimizations, etc....
I was sort of expecting SM 2 to be able to do something like that, I mean I don't think the future lies in just adding new encapsulated Prims and functions.
Just my two cents..
electrogear ·
MegaHurtz wrote: My life hasn't been the same since I was ignored by aliens 🙁 Haha where they mean or yust indifferent?
They didn't even notice me 🙁
Acrobat ·
McBarGig wrote: Windows for industrial processes...
very interesting notes... explains well why I am actually using a HARDWARE sequencer: my ears do not recognise anymore 16000 hz BUT my sense of time is getting better and better everyday. 😉
fluxfuture ·
my vote goes also on - OSC support >> need that for all the iOS and android toys - external dll support
McBarGig ·
@FluxFuture, I really don't think MAC support for SM will ever happen because from what I have been able to understand it would pretty much be a complete rewrite.
rl ·
I think he was talking about open sound control (OSC) to talk to these cutey little devices. OSC is dead simple to implement (short UDP datagram messages). If SM had an extension SDK I'd be the first person to implement OSC support. Granted! (Ich schwör', Alter!)
MegaHurtz ·
fluxfuture wrote: my vote goes also on - OSC support >> need that for all the iOS and android toys - external dll support
JAVA
McBarGig ·
haha Thanks RL..🙂
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