From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
MegaHurtz ·
Jhello, Im opting for a new soundcard.. There being a price drop and all, I was thinking of buying an M-Audio fast track ultra. "USB" Anybody got any other suggestions for a hevy dsp soundcard.. "with some decent pre`s/converters". Or should I yust wait for the next gen to come out?
MichaelBenjamin ·
maudio does cheap keyboard controllers which i would not buy a second time. i dont know about their cards. my internal emu0404 has bloated drivers but worked flawlessly with almost anything for the last ~8years i would buy this again if it broke. external tascam usb also works good, but i only got this since a year. the sapphire firewire is a pain under windows, i would suggest usb instead. i have this on the shelve at the moment. esi gigaport usb is fine if you need 8 outputs without inputs for a cheap price.
MegaHurtz ·
Aah, great tips 🙂 What I need is a card that can handle a lot of plugins,(say the most) for effordless sequencing. And to be shure any mike that i`d like to use fits, some transperant pre`s would be nice. But more than two I dont need.
MichaelBenjamin ·
the usual cards dont process any plugins, they just translate the signal stream to analog/digital, so you are rather looking for a newer cpu/ram if you want low latency and many plugins to run. heres a good overview, where you cn select what you want to have and it filters out the available stuff: http://www.thomann.de/nl/usb_audio_interfaces.html
Nu Audio Science ·
The new MOTU USB is small cheap and the drivers are supposed to be as rock solid as their firewire and PCI interfaces Besides that you have the RME USB that is without doubt currently the best USB drivers around
Edirol have a great reputation too for their USB interfaces(Especially when used with Linux)
Beyond those three makes i would touch nothing else USB with a big long pole
If you are feeling a bit spendy and can use firewire you could look at the Xcite from Sonic Core That is the most powerful DSP capable interface currently on the market I use their PCI cards but they are very costly
NAS
aliasant ·
Nu Audio Science wrote: The new MOTU USB is small cheap and the drivers are supposed to be as rock solid as their firewire and PCI interfaces Besides that you have the RME USB that is without doubt currently the best USB drivers around
Edirol have a great reputation too for their USB interfaces(Especially when used with Linux)
Beyond those three makes i would touch nothing else USB with a big long pole
If you are feeling a bit spendy and can use firewire you could look at the Xcite from Sonic Core That is the most powerful DSP capable interface currently on the market I use their PCI cards but they are very costly
NAS
LOL
I have a Motu Traveler and all I can say is that the Drivers are Rock Solid on Macs but Rock Bottom in Windows. They still dont really work that well after years of developing it and getting support from them is almost impossible. The AD/DA and mic pres sound superb. I got a later version of the Traveler mkII that has better, more stable preamps in it but I had to return 2 travelers that both had serious problems before I got the good one....
Disco_Steve ·
yea my mate dan has a motu, it is old but the drivers just don't work. my emu does have bloated drivers, but I too cant recommend it enough, the sonics are great. very good converts on them. but the latency is very poor. my old m-audio 1010tl had the best drivers i've ever come across though, very low latency loads of in and out. so I would recommend the M-audio. RME specs are good, but for loads of in and out with good pres at a good price has to be the focusright. my other mate chris has a 24 channel set up. for less than £1k great pres for your money. great sound, proper impedance matching on the liquid channels. fantastic!! he did have problems with his old laptop with it though, the fire-wire card was incompatible and it didn't really work, the new laptop though, no problems.
aliasant ·
I did build a new PC with a nice ASUS P5..something Mobo with built in Firewire and I thought that should be enough to run the MOTU that I already had but no. Not even a brand new mobo with Intel i7s is good enough for MOTUs drivers. Lucky for me I had an extra PCIe Firewire card that works ok but not great. It loses the connection sometimes but not nearly as bad as with the mobo firewire.
attic ·
You might look at Presonus. I have a Motu2408mk3 on Windows do not go that route. Motu has zero support and they only pretend to make drivers for windows, unless you want lots of bsods and headaches. If I was buying right now it would be a mixer not an interface. I would go with the new Presonus StudioLive Mixer. This one. http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=52
MegaHurtz ·
looks like those pci-e cards still the best.
Tzarls ·
Funny, I use a MOTU 2408MKiI under XP and I´ve never have a problem with it.
Anyway, are you looking for something "pro" and expensive (and hi-q) or are you on a budget and want a good bang-for-the-buck? I´m thinking of buying one of those first M-Box things (the ones with the Focusrite preamps) mainly for using with my netbook. You can get them used on ebay from less than
attic ·
Funny, I use a MOTU 2408MKiI under XP
I have heard the 2408MKiI are more stable then the mk3 on windows. Not to hijack the post but is the Maudio 410 any good? I need to find another cheap temporary sound solution as the motu is ok most of the time, but anytime I output a standalone exe. from Synthmaker it doesn't work........ however the VST's work fine. 😕
Nu Audio Science ·
I use MOTUs everyday of the week in the studio recording bands Never had a single problem with any of them be it PCI or firewire Then again i make sure my DAW PCs have the correct firewire chipsets
Drivers on windows have always been rock solid I know of two users out of about a hundred users i know who had issues and both of those where defective hardware which was replaced MOTU are not the most communicative on the planet but their drivers are solid
NAS
Nu Audio Science ·
attic wrote: Funny, I use a MOTU 2408MKiI under XP
I have heard the 2408MKiI are more stable then the mk3 on windows. Not to hijack the post but is the Maudio 410 any good? I need to find another cheap temporary sound solution as the motu is ok most of the time, but anytime I output a standalone exe. from Synthmaker it doesn't work........ however the VST's work fine. 😕
Nope MK3 is exactly the same Kind of would be really considering it is the exact same chipset using the exact same driver
Lots of stuff in this thread about MOTU pretending to support windows when people should just go buy a good firewire card All your troubles would disappear 😉
NAS
MichaelBenjamin ·
just buying a good firewire card sound easier than it is. i tried 3 different cards, 2 with the ti chipset everyone was suggesting, and still it broke sometime, lost connection and made wierd interferences. comparing to usb where i never got any problem like that i see not a single benefit in another plug standard that does exactly the same.
Disco_Steve ·
[quote="MichaelBenjamin"]just buying a good firewire card sound easier than it is. quote]
compleatly agree, I NEVER know which one is going to work!, it normally depends on the chip used inside the firewire sound card, and they normally dont tell you. and motu wont let you download the spec sheet without buying the thing! Dan had his moto on his mac, he pluged it into my machine, (separate firewire card, again bought bassed upon internet trawl for good chipsets) and when he pluged it into my machine, it broke and never worked again! dan managed to get it replaced, but the replacement broke on him about 3 months latter, so he got that replaced, and I cant remember how but he ended up with two!
aliasant ·
YEah. Windows caps firewire ports so that they work slower. Probably to be able to say USB 2 is faster which is a total bull. There are some ways to change the default speeds but its no that easy. For me who likes to be able to run it at 192kHz I need it to work and if it has to take tinkering, bying extra cards, reading forum thread after forum thread, reinstalling drivers and even the entire op system several times to get it to work something is seriously wrong.
Its funny thoug. On my Mac this Motu Traveler ran like a dream. Never a single hickup, restart, reinstall drivers or anything. Perfect every day.
infuzion ·
MichaelBenjamin wrote: just buying a good firewire card sound easier than it is.
I couldn't use the Firewire port for audio on my old laptop, so I bought a PCMCI card, which didn't work, & I couldn't get my Presonus to work on my desktop until the 2nd Firewire card. Presonus has a bad FW rep also, so I'm not sure if this is partly Presonus' fault. I will never use firewire again!
Man, so much bad news about the MOTU MK3... I bought one but haven't really used it yet. 😊 Sad thing is the salesman said MOTU was better than M-Audio for drivers!
trogluddite ·
infuzion wrote: I will never use firewire again!
Ditto. Got my Yamaha mLAN setup working well in the end, but it seems Yamaha and all of their supposed 'partners' gave up on mLAN simply because of the bad performance due to firewire issues. Even after dozens of driver updates, I still have a cyclic CPU peak every few seconds due solely to the soundcard drivers. Had similar issues with two different camcorders too. I wonder why MB manufacturers even bother to put a FW port on their products, given how little attention they (and Microsoft) seem to have paid to compatability - there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the FW standard, its synchronous protocol ought in principle to be much more suited to AV work than USB. I'd second the M-Audio/Roland recomendation, I know people with each of those running very low latencies with good reliability and CPU performance (using external pre-amps though, so I can't vouch for mic/guitar quality).
aliasant ·
trogluddite wrote: infuzion wrote: I will never use firewire again!
Ditto. Got my Yamaha mLAN setup working well in the end, but it seems Yamaha and all of their supposed 'partners' gave up on mLAN simply because of the bad performance due to firewire issues. Even after dozens of driver updates, I still have a cyclic CPU peak every few seconds due solely to the soundcard drivers. Had similar issues with two different camcorders too. I wonder why MB manufacturers even bother to put a FW port on their products, given how little attention they (and Microsoft) seem to have paid to compatability - there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the FW standard, its synchronous protocol ought in principle to be much more suited to AV work than USB. I'd second the M-Audio/Roland recomendation, I know people with each of those running very low latencies with good reliability and CPU performance (using external pre-amps though, so I can't vouch for mic/guitar quality).
It is NOT firewire. The problem is WIndows/Microsoft.
Firewire cards works excellent on Macs. Very fast and reliable.
MegaHurtz ·
These RME cards look pretty sweet 🙂 http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_9632.php
attic ·
I have had better luck since I switched to Windows 7 64bit and using reaper. I have used this Motu setup on 3 different machines with many different configs and alternate hardware it always fails in one way or another. I have not had one Bsod since the move to Windows 7 and new drivers from Motu but I will never recommend them to Windows users. Synthmakers exe. export doesn't work with it on my XP sp3 nor Windows 7 64. The sound quality is ok and it has a lot of inputs so that's good. I know how to trouble shoot as I have been computing since dinosaurs. C64, Amstrad, Amiga 500, Amiga 2000, Atari St, 386, Multiple Macs pre Osx, so on. I currently use Win 7 64, Ubuntu, Cloanto (virtual Amiga) and WinXp. I wonder what the safest card is for Synthmaker? What does Malc use?
infuzion ·
aliasant wrote: It is NOT firewire. The problem is WIndows/Microsoft. Firewire cards works excellent on Macs. Very fast and reliable.
Well, this highlights an advantage for Mac; due to a limit of what hardware (only from Apple) you can buy, there are far less compatibility issues to worry about. But crappy chips for FW does not help either.
Honestly, FW will be a moot point soon as USB3 &/or whatever new Ethernet standard takes off.
attic wrote: I have had better luck since I switched to Windows 7 64bit...I have not had one Bsod since the move to Windows 7 and new drivers from Motu but I will never recommend them to Windows users ...I know how to trouble shoot as I have been computing since dinosaurs. C64, Amstrad, Amiga 500, Amiga 2000, Atari St, 386, Multiple Macs pre Osx, so on. I currently use Win 7 64, Ubuntu, Cloanto (virtual Amiga) and WinXp. I wonder what the safest card is for Synthmaker? What does Malc use?
Ah, good, my production laptop is Win7-64! I have you beat though; I used first a Radio Shack TRS-80, & my first computer was a Timex Sinclar with a whopping 4Kb expansion IIRC. 😇
infuzion ·
Related: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4200902
Tzarls ·
You mean a Timex 1000? IIRC those had 2Kb onboard RAM and the expansion was 16Kb.
I still have my TRS-80.... I had my first "sampler" on that computer, a program written by a guy named Jeremy Spiller. Good days. 🙂
trogluddite ·
Tzarls wrote: Timex 1000? IIRC those had 2Kb
Which in turn was a re-badged Sinclair ZX81 - we only got 1Kb in the UK!! The original ZX80 was even more basic - you had to build it yourself from a bag of components!!
attic ·
TRS-80 Timex Sinclar .... I'm just waiting for someone to say PET.😉 I guess everyone here remembers Bill Gates getting pie in the face and purple motion tracker files. 😉
infuzion ·
Tzarls wrote: You mean a Timex 1000? IIRC those had 2Kb onboard RAM and the expansion was 16Kb.
I guess technically "Timex Sinclair 1000". PET computers were not around when I was young. They were being made, but unavailable in stores near me, & none of the schools & neighbors had one. == Back on topic: What programs & VSTs were being used when the MOTU MK2/3 were being used please? There are a few programs & a good handful of VSTs, esp ones made with a certain app (cough cough,) that have memory leaks & overwrite issues. That would explain why Win7 & OSX is more stable also, since they both address memory issues better.
aliasant ·
infuzion wrote: Tzarls wrote: You mean a Timex 1000? IIRC those had 2Kb onboard RAM and the expansion was 16Kb.
I guess technically "Timex Sinclair 1000". PET computers were not around when I was young. They were being made, but unavailable in stores near me, & none of the schools & neighbors had one. == Back on topic: What programs & VSTs were being used when the MOTU MK2/3 were being used please? There are a few programs & a good handful of VSTs, esp ones made with a certain app (cough cough,) that have memory leaks & overwrite issues. That would explain why Win7 & OSX is more stable also, since they both address memory issues better.
I dont know about mk2/3 since I have the MOTU Traveler mk2 but when I used Vista x64 I could only use max 96kHz. In XP I found a way to boost the firewire speed from the capped 100 to 400 ( it ran at 800 in OSX) so that I could use up to 192kHz and that was when I had XP sp2 running on my old mac. The same mac were the Traveler ran like a dream in OSX so heres nohing wrong with the firewire card itself ( Mac Pros internal firewire).
Now hat I ave this new ASUS/Intel i7 PC running W7x64 I can still only use up to 96kHz and its quite annoying. I can select 172 or 192 in my asio setting but theres no sound. MOTU has still not responded to my support ticket about that.
Sometimes after I booted my system I have to restart the MOTU a couple of times to get the soundcard activated..... weird. At least it works fairly good now compared to before but I bought this card because I wanted to be able to use 192kHz....
Tzarls ·
I still use my MOTU 2408MKii, and it works just fine with SM, my own stuff made in SM and a few other VSTis. Any particular VST you want to know about?
attic ·
My experience with Motu was that on XP sp1 it was stable for the most part, then at sp2 it became less stable and on sp3 it was downright naughty. Sp3 started the bsod issue also on the motu forum there was a topic on rolling back the firewire system to the sp1 build of windows. I never switched to Vista so no info there however the latest drivers in Win7 64 have been as stable as XP sp1. I run at 48000 khz 24 and 16bit, I also run at 44100 16 and 24bit ... it depends on what I'm doing.
My Midi Express Xt would also Bsod after XP sp1 and that was just a printer cable.
All of these systems where stable without Motu products in them and would never crash with these other cards Creative Audigy, Creative Soundblaster, Roland Rpc, Emu 1010, M3 firewire.
The programs that liked to crash where Synthedit, Synthmaker, Reaper, Cubase, Acid, various vst's.
Ableton was fairly stable but did have a minor issue a few times.
Sonar didn't seem to have a problem and Reason would never crash.
The one thing that did seem to help on XP was rolling the firewire system back from sp2 or sp3 to the sp1 system.
I personally don't need a fix or reply to this post. I have just put this here in the spirit of trying to help others experiencing issues currently.
AngularMomentum ·
Still using an EMU 1212m with an ADA8000, suits me fine, never, ever had any problem with it, latency around 2 to 10 ms on my projects with a AMD Phenom x4 920 and before with a Intel Q6600. That Hammerfall looks pretty tasty to me though!
attic ·
Still using an EMU 1212m with an ADA8000
Thanks for that good info, craigslist has a few at a reasonable price so I might see if they get along with my current setup. 😉
Disco_Steve ·
I am Also VERY please with my 1212m Its the reason I havnt moved to mac yet (and SMis windows only), as there is nothing as good (specs wise) as this card for the money. the noise floor is compleatlty inaudible, and the jitter is only very just, if you really really really listen hard, on a really good day after alot of ear trainig! the RME I heard has very slightly better jitter.
aliasant ·
Disco_Steve wrote: I am Also VERY please with my 1212m Its the reason I havnt moved to mac yet (and SMis windows only), as there is nothing as good (specs wise) as this card for the money. the noise floor is compleatlty inaudible, and the jitter is only very just, if you really really really listen hard, on a really good day after alot of ear trainig! the RME I heard has very slightly better jitter.
Do you have any way that I and others can use on our own systems to messure our audiocards? Jitter and noise would be very interesting to compare?
150 years ago or so when I did my Sound engineer school I probably had a better idea on how to perform such a test but now, old and senil.... 😊 😕
MegaHurtz ·
sounds like good value for money 🙂
Disco_Steve ·
the B and K website is probably the best place to learn how to do the measurements, just replace 'use the B&K 2012 analyser', for 'make something to do the same job in SM 🙂'
aliasant ·
Disco_Steve wrote: the B and K website is probably the best place to learn how to do the measurements, just replace 'use the B&K 2012 analyser', for 'make something to do the same job in SM 🙂'
Lol ' Well. That was a bit over the top I guess 😉 I was hoping for a simple SM based app or a least some soundfiles that we could run thru our systems a certain way.... Never mind then. Maybe one dark day this winter I'll fire up my 4channel 500MHz oscilloscope but most likely not.
sunsynth ·
Yeah - better leave the Rolls-Royce in the garage 😉
Disco_Steve ·
what not everyone has a B&K 2012 under their bed 😉
their pdfs are a really good place to learn about any type of sound measurement. they really arnt that hard to unstand. honest!
aliasant ·
Disco_Steve wrote: what not everyone has a B&K 2012 under their bed 😉
Naaa I gave the 2 I had to my cat and she ate em up...
Disco_Steve wrote: their pdfs are a really good place to learn about any type of sound measurement. they really arnt that hard to unstand. honest!
Hmm. I sniffed around their website but it was kinda huge.
Not even sure what to look for. The Pulse system is HUUUGE and messuring a simple soundcard is just a small part of what it can do.
Maybe search their Library but what keywords.....
For those whos looking at the Burger King website thinking we are nuts.. heres the link to Bruel & Kjaer: http://www.bksv.com/products/pulseanaly ... tions.aspx
Disco_Steve ·
For those whos looking at the Burger King website thinking we are nuts..
LOL!
AngularMomentum ·
Disco_Steve wrote: I am Also VERY please with my 1212m Its the reason I havnt moved to mac yet (and SMis windows only), as there is nothing as good (specs wise) as this card for the money. the noise floor is compleatlty inaudible, and the jitter is only very just, if you really really really listen hard, on a really good day after alot of ear trainig! the RME I heard has very slightly better jitter.
Also the EMU has the same A/D converters as a digidesign HD 192 Protools interface. The ADA8000 is very good but not the best around. For the price you get more then you pay for. It is one of those pieces where Behringer actually did a very good job. I never, ever will buy a mixer from them (again), unless I get a full set of extra faders and a truckload of canned air.
MegaHurtz ·
^^ The designs are quite good but the faders..ugh
MegaHurtz ·
lol 1212 Im buying one pci-e, thanks!
labelwhore ·
AngularMomentum wrote: Still using an EMU 1212m with an ADA8000, suits me fine, never, ever had any problem with it, latency around 2 to 10 ms on my projects with a AMD Phenom x4 920 and before with a Intel Q6600. That Hammerfall looks pretty tasty to me though!
Wow dude, we have exactly the same setup. 🙂 I'm upgrading my motherboard and processor tomorrow to a AMD Phenom II x4 965 though.
mHz ·
I bought one 1212m , and i like it 🙂 thanks for the tip. Using it with a brand new mpd 26.. hihi 😈 It really murders my mp3 collection, but when im playing on it it shapes my mixing to a perfect result.
trogluddite ·
mHz wrote: murders my mp3 collection
I thought that was what mp3's always sounded like! 😈
mHz ·
hehe, my last one had some cheapassed filter running on the top end. Not the cergical knife this is 🙂. It`s really unflattering.
TomC ·
AngularMomentum wrote: Also the EMU has the same A/D converters as a digidesign HD 192 Protools interface. The ADA8000 is very good but not the best around. For the price you get more then you pay for. It is one of those pieces where Behringer actually did a very good job. I never, ever will buy a mixer from them (again), unless I get a full set of extra faders and a truckload of canned air.
If you need lots of inputs there's a little soundcard from Tascam called DM-4800 which has very good and clean AD converters and faders that won't get stuck after a while. I highly recommend it 😍
Tom
flamingRedDingo ·
When I look for a sound device I have to consider the following (roughly in order of importance)
1. COMPATIBILITY!! Check ONLINE FORUMS BEFORE YOU BUY! I can't stress how important it is to ensure that your audio device will in fact properly function with the DAW and other software you are using. Check first. Just because something says ASIO compliant for example, doesn't mean it doesn't behave badly with your software. Before you plunk down $300 see if someone else has tried it first...
2. Enough Inputs and Outputs? (also phantom power support?) SPDIF doesn't count either - but some devices (such as the M-Audio FastTrack Pro) have an extra input and output, but they are SPDIF only! - useless, in many environments. Read the fine print 🙂 Turns out I can do better w/ an ancient a SB Live! card than a fasttrack pro in terms of # of IO ports - I use a headphone-only rehearse out for live stuff so the extra out is critical (for me at least). A fast track pro won't work for a guy in my shoes. Make sure you have enough "true" IO ports...
3. The bus interface device isn't incredibly important in my opinion. I prefer USB3 when possible because of the flexibility and availability of USB on many devices... Firewire is okay too, but it only really stands out as great if you have a mac studio setup.. of course external over PCI is nice, but you can't use it with a laptop...The speed of the interface doesn't matter too much, because every device is going to be fast enough to support its IO - BTW usb3 rates faster than firewire anyways - not that I care, but anybody that screams about bus performance is selling something, IMO..
All in all, I like the m-audio product line, but I can't recommend the FastTrack Pro, because it doesn't have enough analog IO...Get something with more in's and out's I don't really think 2x2 is enough, personally - unless you have SPDIF as well in which case I think it is 4x4...
nix ·
Firewire is faster than USB 2. Generally you need a Texas Instruments chipset to ensure compatibility though I think. I run both, firewire(Mackie Onyx 1220) and USB(Access Virus TI). regardies, Nick Perhaps PCI though?
trogluddite ·
From my experience - I've used USB, PCIand currently FW over the years - the biggest single factor is the quality of drivers. The various maximum bus speeds are just that; the maximum available in theory! - and that can all go up in smoke if the drivers are badly implemented. So once you know what features you need, follow Dingo's advice - get scanning the forums etc. to see what issues other users have had.
flamingRedDingo ·
"I need to find another cheap temporary sound solution "
If you have a PCI bus interface and you can find an old SB Live! EMU10k1 based soundcard (very common, very old) or even an Audigy, you can then google "Kx Audio Project" for the WinXP and Win7 drivers that enable 100% true low latency ASIO support. I've ran them at 2ms latency on a modern dual core system without problems. They don't sound quite as good as the "real deal" but they do sound okay, they are very cheap (
You would do well to consider getting one - it's one of the best kept secrets in home studio PC-based digital recording, IMO...just remember to get the KX audio package, and don't dink around with Creative Labs drivers or OEM drivers...
BTW: anyone that wants to know how to re-program the hardware DSP on the SB Live! to allow 4 outs at super low latency (yes! you can!), then download the attached config I've provided. I've got a nice direct routing with b2b 15.5bit correction (see SB Live hardware errata) ... It makes the card in to a 4x1 (or possibly 4x2) config instead of 2x1 (or 2x2). Also, since they are directly routed asio lines and don't route through any mixing or other processing, this configuration is great for pure- lowest latency possible recording and playback...It works with any EMU10k1 based SB Live! (most of them, except the Live! 24bit)... and maybe even the EMU10k2 based audigy cards .. To use this config, it should be loaded into the DSP panel of the KxMixer UI.. once loaded, no panning or level adjustments can be made through the mixer - just rely on your DAW's levels instead... To revert, just right click, and choose "Reset DSP" (or similar) from the menu...
flamingRedDingo ·
whoops.. I forgot to finalize the attachment I mentioned in my previous post. Here it is: Remove the ".osm" extension at the end of the filename once you download it (the forum said I couldn't upload it otherwise)
You must have an EMU10k1 based SB Live! (or possibly an Audigy card) and Kx Audio Project drivers installed in order to use this file.
flamingRedDingo ·
nix wrote: Firewire is faster than USB 2.
And USB3 is faster than Firewire...*shrug* And all the speed ratings are theoretical though anyways...*yawn*
The bottom line is that it doesn't matter which is faster.
Only that the bus is fast enough handle the # of IO ports it has. Since every single audio interface ever produced fulfills that requirement, it ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL - AT ALL - AT ALL, which bus is faster. At. All.
Firewire interfaces are great if you use a mac... But if you use a windows machine, beware - you are almost guaranteeing problems . Different devices are better than others, but Firewire support is dodgy on windows...
And I can plug my usb breakout box into my Playstation 3 😀
overall, USB is more widely available, generally cheaper, and often more stable than a firewire counterpart. So if I wanted a sound device that is most likely to work decently with potentially ANY environment (PC/Mac/or other), I'd have to recommend usb over firewire. A lot.
Nu Audio Science ·
USB better than Firewire = rubbish Firewire on windows bad problems = rubbish KX being able to do 2ms = Was going to type rubbish but just to be more specific it is reported latency not round trip latency, Round trip latency is the only important figure
As has already been stated it is all about the drivers and as i already stated earlier the best drivers you can get are RME and MOTU, MOTU have bouts of crappy releases every six months or so but normally fix within a few weeks (There is a reason that MOTU and RME are used in so many studios)
I have owned the EMU mentioned above and it was OK but compared to my RME or MOTU (I have FW and PCI and PCMCIA) it used way too many resources to get low latency performance and the round trip was always and i mean always at least double the reported
I would guess that most soundcards would be just fine if you want to just run some synths an play stuff via MIDI, I however am recording upto anywhere near 32 tracks at a time (I have recorded 60 using my Scopes but those are maybe a bit hi end for this discusion hahaha) and when you are recording track counts that high you get to know the best drivers RME and MOTU are the only FW worth having full stop, The rest are mainly based on DICE II which is useless (Use google if you don't believe me)
My own personal preference currently is RME PCI (Or PCIe) cards using ADAT converters (The Behringers are actually amazing for the cost, The pre's are even usable) Like is said earlier though if you just want to trigger VSTi and so on then any old card will do
NAS
nix ·
How do you like the Scope stuff NAS? I've been thinking about them for years. Is XCite USB or FW?
flamingRedDingo ·
"KX being able to do 2ms" - I was reporting based on the size of my ASIO buffer. I haven't used a loopback to test round trip... seriously, does anybody actually do that?... again, I was reporting based on the size of my ASIO buffer... I bet you could have assumed that..
"Firewire on windows = Bad Problens" - umm, actually in the "real world" most musicians would rather things "just work"... If you use a firewire setup on windows, you are asking for problems. I never meant to imply that you will ALWAYS have problems. What I was saying, is that you are playing against the odds. You must be very careful, and you will almost certainly be tied to very particular setups or risk problems. That is the point I was making, and I stand by my statement.. and that statement comes from hard won experience. For every smooth FW setup you can show me on a PC, I'll show you two that have problems...
"USB is better than Firewire"... read my posts carefully. I never made that statement unqualified. In fact, I said that the bus you use really doesn't matter that much...
I'd send you a box of tampax and a bottle of "no more tears", but it turns out that I can't encode them as an attachment...Dry your eyes mate
Regards
flamingRedDingo ·
One more thing regarding the SB Live/KX setup.. if one were to configure the SB using the attachment I provided, then very little DSP is being performed... the 2ms latency (each-way, based on the buffer size) is pretty close to the mark... save an infinitesimal amount of additional latency for the tiny amount of DSP, and the DACs and ADCs.... 2ms (each way) is damn close to the mark.. i'm out on a limb here admittedly, but it's possibly more accurate of a projection than most, because I've eliminated the mixer leveling code (which almost every other audio setup does not)
MichaelBenjamin ·
again: every usb or pci card i used so far worked good. got one firewire interface and it was nothing but trouble. bizarre digital interference, weird init screw ups, i even finally got one texas instruments chip card (an adventure of its own) and it still was flaky. would never recommend firewire for windows, since usb works just as well and without any problems.
nix ·
I had a lot of success with KX drivers for running low latency years ago too. The routing scheme is cool too IIRC
datsound ·
read this:
i got the emu usb one cos i read in reviews that it has the best snr and best sounding dsp of them all, it is stable and reliable, but the volume button doesnt work too well on xp with my laptop, have to go via windows volume controls. http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/hard ... B_main.jpg
it doesnt need a seperate DC input unless u use the phantom power for the mic.
if you need audio gear, its a good idea to check reviews abnd rankings on zzounds gear.
that said there may be better usb asio than the emu but it is small reliable and uses the best chips according to reviewers.
http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=emu+us ... d=0CAgQpwU
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