From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
steph_tsf ·
hi,
some time ago I did a simple SynthMaker digital crossover using a MAYA 44 USB sound card (four cinch-outs), using RBJ Green Maths. Working nice. It is here RBJ Filters - Audio Biquad - GreenMaths in Excel
However, I found impossible to use Winamp, PowerDVD or Windows Media Player as the Windows audio source. I needed to run a tiny MP3 player in a mini VST host. The useability falls thus to zero, for me. That's the issue. I feel happy with SynthMaker, this is a great piece of DSP audio software, accompanied with an amazing GUI, but due to the fact that it stays confined inside the VST/ASIO world, the useability for me falls to zero, in this particular example.
I have thus three questions :
1. Can somebody explain if ASIO4ALL may be a solution for hooking SynthMaker on the Windows XP or Windows 7 sound system ? ASIO4ALL is here http://www.asio4all.com/
2. Can somebody explain how to use ASIO4ALL and the MAYA 44 USB sound card, for grabbing the Windows sound data coming from Winamp, PowerDVD or Windows Media Player, entering it into SynthMaker, let it processed by SynthMaker (or by a standalone executable compiled by SynthMaker), and outputting the four 4 audio channels to the four cinch-outs of the MAYA 44 USB sound card ?
3. Can somebody explain how to do the same, not using the MAYA 44 USB sound card, but using the built-in "Intel HD Audio" peripheral that is present on nearly all desktop motherboards produced after 2006 ?
Footnote 1 :
The "Intel HD Audio" specification got introduced in 2004 by Intel, superseding the AC'97 specification. "HD Audio" provides 32-bit, 192kHz audio with eight channels (7.1), enabling it to support DVD-A and Dolby Digital and DTS multichannel surround formats. HD Audio also supports multiple, independent audio streams for sending audio to different rooms in the house. HD Audio is made up of a controller connected to analog/digital codecs by a 5-wire TDM interface called "HD Audio Link." The two subsystems separate the digital controller, which is built into the PC chipset, from the analog circuits, which can be in a chip on the motherboard, a riser card or cabled close to the I/O connectors.
Footnote 2 :
I hope you understand the potential of HD Audio when you make the effort considering it as a versatile eight channel audio interface. My approach would be to insert SynthMaker between a) the stereo audio stream generated by Winamp, PowerDVD or Windows Media Player to be considered as the Windows stereo audio source and b) the eight audio channels to be considered as physical audio outputs.
Footnote 3 :
If there is way to output the eight resulting channels, not as analog signals, but still in digital using SPDIF, USB or HDMI ?
Footnote 4 :
In a worst case scenario, where it may be too difficult to do all the jobs withinn one single computer, is it feasible to have one mini-PC dedicated to the task of reading a stereo digital audio channel on SPDIF-in, USB-in or HDMI-in, and executing a SynthMaker application for splitting it into 8 channels (like a stereo 4-way digital crossover), and then, outputting the audio through the built-in "HD Audio" on the motherboard, or outputting the audio through a USB 8 channel sound card like http://store.mp3car.com/GIGAPort_AG_USB ... om-066.htm.
Any reply much appreciated
Steph
MichaelBenjamin ·
i cant speak about the maya but i use quite a cheap setup to get similar things done to these that you mention.
2 cards:
emu 0404 pci - this one lets me route every windows audio stream (media player, whatever is playing) to its asio wave in and puts it back processed on the output - i would be surprised if this would not work with your maya card - maybe have a closer look to the mixer application that comes with it.
for any multichannel playback, i would forget about any "standard" - its a complete mess. and hd-audio soundchips on motherboards.. i dont know.
for 8 channel playback i use an esi gigaport hd usb - it has nothing to do with hdaudio and just gives 8 freely accessible 44.1/16 bit out streams without any bells and whistles which is exactly what i wanted.
ah i saw you mentioned it - yes this thing is really interesting for multichannel without having to enter the jungle of "5.7.9.1.dolbydts.patented.standards".
but the problem would be that you need to read a stream live, and the gigaport card has no input - so atleast in synthmaker you cannot select asio input from a stereo card>8channelprocessing>anotherasioout.
what could work is if you use 2 standalone hosts, like energyxt, one that receives the stereo source and then transmits it over one of the "transmitter"-vsts (forgot the specific name but there are a handful of these available) to the second host which processes the sm to 8 channel and outputs it on the gigaport card.
about spdif afaik this only outputs stereo signals.
sunsynth ·
I have tested many combinations of ASIO4All and Hardware...
My definitive hint is: by a MOTU 828 mk II USB 2nd hand on ebay...
u get mucho in's and out's with perfect ASIO and even an ASIO DirectX Full duplex driver!!!
I use it with my standalone 16/12 SCM-1612 pro: http://www.justmix.biz/SCM-1612_pro.html
...it works perfect!
Tzarls ·
I´d look for a virtual audio cable software. You then route winamp´s output to the virtual audio cable (which installs itself as a phisycal device in windows) and then get your synthmaker app to receive data from the virtual audio cable. That should do it.
steph_tsf ·
Thanks for bringing the idea of the Virtual Audio Cable. Looks promising if installed as the "by default" virtual sound card. Then all the audio streams will indeed automatically enter the ASIO/VST pipeline containing SynthMaker. Great ! Hope there won't be any perceivable latency when viewing movies. Will test this in detail.
I found :
http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html
http://www.ntonyx.com/vac.htm
http://www.fox-magic.com/vac.php
Any recommendation ?
Steph
aliasant ·
steph_tsf wrote: Thanks for bringing the idea of the Virtual Audio Cable. Looks promising if installed as the "by default" virtual sound card. Then all the audio streams will indeed automatically enter the ASIO/VST pipeline containing SynthMaker. Great ! Hope there won't be any perceivable latency when viewing movies. Will test this in detail.
I found :
http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html
http://www.ntonyx.com/vac.htm
http://www.fox-magic.com/vac.php
Any recommendation ?
Steph
I do this by using 2 different audiocards.
Any sound generated in the computer is sent out the internal soundcards optical toslink cable into my external MOTU Traveler box. (It has o use the same samplerate as my Motu card and that can be anything from 44kz to 96kHz)
That way I get the sounds from iTunes, VLC or whatever into my ASIO with virtually no latency at all depending on the buffer size. I have it set o 512samples now and that is ok for general use.
This also means that I can treat any sound from my PC with a homemade .exe or inside SM or why not in Reaper or any other host.
I have a compressor that is always active in the back that takes the ASIO signal directly from the toslink input, treats it and sends it out the main ASIO to my speakers. That way I can control the volume of all sounds my computer generates including movies, games, music and even the annoying "new mail" sounds. The compressor makes sure there are no nasty surprises 🙂
Also convenient when building effects inside SM. No hassling with extra software or virtual cables. Everything is already there hooked up and ready o use.
All this takes is 2 soundcards and 1 toslink cable.
JIftw ·
Hi steph_tsf,
I'm not sure I understand what you want correctly as I am unable to see how ASIO4ALL relates to the question you're asking, or even why the problem seems so complicated. Is what you want to do simply to load stereo sound sources, process them realtime by a VST / 4-way stereo crossover, and have 8 channel audio output ? If so, then:
No, you do not need more than 1 computer
ASIO4ALL is only an ASIO driver for WDM-only soundcards. It is not a virtual audio cable.
Forget about "grabbing" Windows' audio output into an ASIO sound source. (Re-routing audio is needlessly complicated for your application)
You need only one sound card. You do not need any special hardware, other than one basic 8 channel sound card. Yes, you can even use a crappy sound chipset included on motherboard. Be warned, Realtek's published specs look good on paper, but perform horribly in real life. Crossovers are particularily sensitive to improper frequency response, phase response, polarity issues, etc.
I hope the following can be of help to you.
First, you really need to stop using Windows Media Player / PowerDVD and such software if you are looking for customizability. You could try using Media Player Classic - Homecinema (I recommend you disable the intergrated codecs) in combination with ffdshow-tryouts as decoder (enable all codecs). FFDShow-tryouts will allow you to configure your 8 channel audio output from any audio input. You can configure various mixing matrices, and save your presets that can auto-load under configurable conditions. You can load VST plugins in ffdshow-tryouts by activating Winamp plugin support, then load a Winamp-VST wrapper. (if it's too difficult to find one, instead use a Winamp-DX wrapper such as the free FFX-4 Rack for Winamphttp://vincent.burel.free.fr/download/index.htm, and encapsulate your VST plugin into a DX one with another wrapper, such as Fxppansion's.) This should work for both movies and music. (The only possible failure I could imagine is if the Winamp-plugin architecture does not support more than 2 channels (haven't tested yet).)
Alternatively, an easier solution but for music only: try foobar2000. It has a crossover, up to 4-way stereo I think, and various other DSP. It also includes a direct VST bridge, and supports ASIO as bonus.
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