SynthMakersquareal ·
Hey boffins
Trying to make an echo/reverb unit and am struggling to find out how to find the code for the echo delay.
Has anyone got any ideas.
Much appreciated.
Echo/Reverb
From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
bootsy ·
just have a look into the analog modelling kit.
2nvu ·
bootsy wrote: just have a look into the analog modelling kit.
Well it sure looks Good ? But_boy dosnt it just [email protected] 😠 & then it leaves it Hanging with a Idle Cpu of 7% up to 15%, Not good enough. my reference is to the analog modelling kit >>>> TempoSynced Delay 😠 & some of its other effects suffer the very same problematic eror ? 😠 😠 😠 😠
Dell ·
Hi.
You can get a better understanding on how to build your own Echo or Reverb from the stock units that is included with Synthmaker.
The CPU usage will vary pending on what you aiming to build.
The simpler the design, the lower the chances of having high CPU usage.
Cheers!
infuzion ·
It is likely the same issue as was your other thread; the DSP is not optimized into ASM. Most other syth-kits (eg SynthEdit & Reaktor) have the same non-ASM = high CPU% issue. You'll either have to learn enough ASM (check out the WIKI), or hire someone else to do it for you.
Nu Audio Science ·
Do it ASM do it in ASM Blah blah blah If you are getting 7% - 15% in idle it is nothing to do with it not being ASM The way people carry on you would think nothing can be done with Synthmaker unless it is in ASM That is pure and total crap
If you are getting that much in idle using stock modules you need to look how you have them wired and check for denormals
Synthmaker is very usable without having to resort to ASM
NAS
Andrew J ·
Nu Audio Science wrote: If you are getting that much in idle using stock modules you need to look how you have them wired and check for denormals
Right on NAS.
MegaHurtz ·
learn asm it`s fun 🙂 I think not a matter of having to resort to, rather loving it becouse it`s friggin awesome !!
Nu Audio Science ·
If you are planning to stay in SM forever yes that may be the case However i see no point at all in learning to code ASM if you plan to take your coding to the next level C++ and create cross platform plugins ASM outside of SM is about as useful as a chocolate kettle nowadays
NAS
MegaHurtz ·
I think if you got the mindset, asm is so friendly to learn. It`s more of a mental hurdle to get yourself to wanting to use it. C++ is also nice but not fun at all. To me it reminds me of work.
Edit there are microcontrollers that can be programmed with asm. So you might build youself a little hardware with it. And C++ will accept it.
infuzion ·
Nu Audio Science wrote: Do it ASM do it in ASM Blah blah blah If you are getting 7% - 15% in idle it is nothing to do with it not being ASM
First of all NAS, please do not mock me. I thought this forum was one of the few forums people try to respect each other? Go back to KVR if you want to behave this way NAS, please. Second, we don't know what CPU (s)he is using. That percentage is about what my old single-core laptop ran for most simple OSMs without ASM. Third, if it was denormals, the % should be higher in my experience.
Nu Audio Science wrote: ASM outside of SM is about as useful as a chocolate kettle nowadays
I'm rather certain that Propellerheads, Ableton, & many other audio programmers worth their weight use ASM for their DSP code; that's why their plugins/devices have such low CPU usage. Most game companies use ASM on a regular basis to get their games to run well on lower-end computers. Even the newer (from CS3) Adobe filtering system runs as an ASM interface, which also happens to be used for most "online audio programs", . If you're building websites or don't care about CPU since you're programing for fun, then don't worry about ASM.
MegaHurtz ·
infuzion wrote: Third, if it was denormals, the % should be higher in my experience.
I have never suffered these, i guess it`s due to dividers or reciprocals that shouldhave been multiplyers. Nor in my feedback chains and shure as heck not in my enveloppe generators. They do not come to haunt me ever.
MichaelBenjamin ·
i think that asm we use in sm is mostly a really simple 8 slot puzzle, its the sse subset and some single channel commands. what i saw elsewhere of x86 asm was several stages more cryptic. about the denormals, i think they just triple~quadruple the amount of cpu and with just one delay that amount sounds quite right. about the asm asm - yes it pays off to optimize often used code into asm, but at the same time it isnt that important where you safely can spend 40% more cpu. and infuzion, i dont think nas was especially mocking you, it just seems he got some different temperament.
Nu Audio Science ·
infuzion wrote: ]First of all NAS, please do not mock me. I thought this forum was one of the few forums people try to respect each other? Go back to KVR if you want to behave this way NAS, please. Second, we don't know what CPU (s)he is using. That percentage is about what my old single-core laptop ran for most simple OSMs without ASM. Third, if it was denormals, the % should be higher in my experience. I'm rather certain that Propellerheads, Ableton, & many other audio programmers worth their weight use ASM for their DSP code; that's why their plugins/devices have such low CPU usage.
OK first of all to you Infuzion I wasn't mocking you but as you went over the top with the reply i will respond You state all the time that SM is pretty much useless unless you do everything in ASM and more than once have stated that SM is not good enough for you and your projects yet you still have an advertisement of your services in your sig (Seems a little off lets be honest)
Second Why would you possibly think you have the right to tell users what forum they should and shouldn't use ? I made a valid point that to be perfectly honest was way more valid than yours (High idle CPU is normally 90% of the time denormals and the other 10% isn't because it isn't ASM) And to be perfectly honest i don't like seeing users with thousands of posts giving bad advice to a new user (Somebody told me i needed to learn ASM when i started using SM it would have went straight out the window)
Thirdly Seems kind of surprising if ASM is so important in audio software that Reaper is known for being one of if not the lowest CPU and RAM using hosts with more features than most and uses zero that is zero ASM, In fact it's coder J Frankel laughs at the thought (that is fact not here say , I have spoken to him about this)
NAS
MegaHurtz ·
Nas wrote..
-I made a valid point that to be perfectly honest was way more valid than yours (High idle CPU is normally 90% of the time denormals and the other 10% isn't because it isn't ASM)]
soo wrong, knoks back 20% to 3% if ya do it right
Seems kind of surprising if ASM is so important in audio software that Reaper is known for being one of if not the lowest CPU and RAM using hosts with more features than most and uses zero that is zero ASM, In fact it's coder J Frankel laughs at the thought (that is fact not here say , I have spoken to him about this)
I dont mind letting other people speak for them selves, I am my own man firstly. Show some fucking balls! And second C++ is constructed from ASM There is no other. Not that decades of evolution hasnt sharpened the program. But your "friend" is yust an idiot if he wouldnt admit he could knock something off in asm. Hes probbably yoking at your story.
l337 Snobby McSnob Snobs
Yea with an HBO in Audio design and a decade of experience.
Nu Audio Science ·
Please point out where i have told somebody not to use a particular forum
The other wise cracks you made i am not even going to reply to other than to say you just proved my sig 100% correct
NAS
MegaHurtz ·
deleted already..
MegaHurtz ·
I yust strongly disagree.
MyCo ·
2nvu wrote: But_boy dosnt it just [email protected] 😠 & then it leaves it Hanging with a Idle Cpu of 7% up to 15%, Not good enough. my reference is to the analog modelling kit >>>> TempoSynced Delay 😠 & some of its other effects suffer the very same problematic eror ?
The modules in the AMK are direct translations of the S|M stock modules. The code is ASM optimized, but many modules have denormal problems outside of the code part. eg. the delay modules have feedback multiplications outside of the code modules that can cause denormals.
trogluddite ·
MyCo wrote: The code is ASM optimized, but many modules have denormal problems outside of the code part.
I now use ASM an awful lot, but MyCo's post makes a very important point - the algorithm that you use must always be optimal before conversion to code/asm will bring about much benefit. Using assembly, even when fully optimised, is not a 'miracle cure' for high CPU load (and can be head-scratchingly tricky work). Things like avoiding denormals, reducing divides/subtracts, keeping as much code in green as possible, losing unnecessary intermediate variables, and simplifying your mathematical algebra should be the first places to look for a reduction in CPU load. ASM optimising is the 'icing on the cake' - squeezing out those final few inefficiencies that are inherent in any compiled higher-level language. Remember also that fully optimised ASM can be almost unreadable once internal variables have been substituted for registers, making it very hard to make major changes to an algorithm without a complete re-write (precisely the reason that higher level programming languages were invented.) - so get it right in code/primitives first before even thinking about dropping an ASM primitive into a schematic.
NekroDisko ·
infuzion wrote: [quote="First of all NAS, please do not mock me. I thought this forum was one of the few forums people try to respect each other? Go back to KVR if you want to behave this way NAS, please.
I second you on this here Infuzion. This forum is by far one of the best, and most mature I´ve ever been a part of. Mocking, bullying and behaviour like that should be shunned entirely from this forum. Also, I have experienced, that the KVR-forum has become a sort of "I want this (in the most professional quality as possible), while paying nothing, with the greatest number of presets (also in the most professional quality), and still some more features".
That attitude towards free-ware really bugged the Hell out of me, so I will never release another free-ware VST there anymore...
Nu Audio Science ·
I really hope you are not saying that i mocked or bullied anyone Because if you do you better prove it Accusing people of things they haven't done is just as bad as the rubbish at KVR you speak about And why does KVR keep getting brought up with my name Yes i am a moderator over there but believe me i have had wars with other mods lately over there behaviour towards people
NAS
trogluddite ·
Time to get back to helping squareal with his echo/reverb, no?
bootsy ·
If squareal do has any more specific question I'm ready to help here ...
aliasant ·
Maybe squareal can upload the osm for us so we can nail the problems he had? Most likely more then one but denormals are usually the main problem in a time based effect with internal feedbacks. If he uses this in a poly section the denormals only add up as long as the voice is active. That might make it harder to spot since cpu usage wont go completely nuts with time. In a mono case it will keep on building since its always running... blabla...
I might have missed it but I dont think squareal told us if this is in mono or poly..... even hogh it sonds as if it is mono.. ¨ Up an example .osm for us 🙂
MegaHurtz ·
bootsy wrote: If squareal do has any more specific question I'm ready to help here ...
ARE YOU SAYING WE ARE NOT !!?
😉
trogluddite ·
MyCo wrote: many modules have denormal problems outside of the code part
Reading back, it was the analogue modelling fx that were causing the problems, and looks like MyCo has pinned the problem down (never used them myself coz I'm a DIY nut). Worrying that a 'free bonus download' designed to help beginners should have these problems - if I were a new user I'd be thinking that SM was inherently power hungry after seeing those CPU readings. Worth downloading the AMK to have a poke around inside - could even turn into a nice little 'denormals for beginners' tutorial.
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