In need of guidance :)

stw · 10 Mar 2010

Motiv wrote: I have just done the tutorial that comes with Synthmaker, I just wondered what I should learn next. Are there any useful tutorials or guides about? -Cheers

Hello and welcome to SM and the forum ! The most useful hints (not only) for beginners are found in the wiki. Beside a tutuorial you can find dozens of interesting articels and goodies! If you're interested in some special topics do a search in the forum. It's a rich source of help and "HowTo's"

Have fun! 😉

Motiv · 10 Mar 2010

thankyou I will have a look, Im interested in making effects really -Cheers

oddson · 10 Mar 2010

The tutorials on the WIKI focus on Synths more than effects... but it could be useful to get a better feel for the program.

I'd say making effects requires a more detailed understanding of DSP than putting together Synth modules.

You would likely want to learn some coding basics but that might not be the next step.

After you've got putting together high-level moduals you may want to go inside them and start figuring out how they work. And make sure you understand the basic concepts like the different data types etc.

Do you have any math or DSP background? Do you know any scripting or lower-level computer languages?

It's tough to point you in the right direction without understanding what your challenges are?

Motiv · 10 Mar 2010

I have a fair understanding of basic sound engineering and music production, but I wanted to learn about VSTs; I have tried coding before. I have tried little bits of visual basic and c++ but nothing much really.

I think I'm going to have a go at making a 3 osc synth, I have downloaded a few peoples example files; I have to admit it all looks quite complex, however as I look at it more and more it is making more sense. As with everything, I will have to take the time to learn.

Then I can progress onto effects, I have to say I thought effects would be easier, I didn't realise how much work goes into VSTs.

cheers

MichaelBenjamin · 10 Mar 2010

oddson wrote: I'd say making effects requires a more detailed understanding of DSP than putting together Synth modules.

but you could aswell invert that sentence and say: "I'd say making synths requires a more detailed understanding of DSP than putting together effect modules."

which doesnt make much sense either way, because what is putting together modules? sure they are different but the difference is basically that with a synth you have control over the generation and processing whereas with an effect you have no control over what gets put into it and you only process. does that make the effect more or less difficult? i think its just different emphasis.

oddson · 10 Mar 2010

Motiv wrote: I have a fair understanding of basic sound engineering and music production, but I wanted to learn about VSTs; I have tried coding before. I have tried little bits of visual basic and c++ but nothing much really....

That sounds pretty good to me... you should have no trouble.

One bit of advice -- don't try to understand everything right off the bat.

The advantage of SynthMaker is that you can see how the modules work by looking under the hood and seeing all the gory details. The problem with SynthMaker is that you can see how the modules work by looking under the hood and seeing all the gory details -- and that can be discouraging when you don't know what most of the primitives do. Treat controls as black boxes at first and stay out of their guts until you need them to do something that the basic properties can't do (I remember being confounded by what was going on inside the knob controls until I realized I didn't need to know.)

Run through my basic tutorial on the WIKI... a lot of it is about synths rather than effects but the familiarity with the program will still help.

When you're ready pick a basic effect type, read up on the theory of how it works (if you don't already know), and then start looking for what you'll need to understand to make one in SynthMaker. Come here and ask for help when you need to. Try to pose your questions in a way that demonstrates your level of understanding about the problem you've encountered -- you'll get better help. I don't know how many times I've given lame-ass answers about DSP theory to someone who knows more than I do about it because I didn't recognize they were asking how you did something in SynthMaker while they completely understood what that something is and how it works in principle.

At some point you'll want to try the Code component out... it's very basic in most of it's operations except for conditionals because the parallel nature of SSE processing means you can't jump to different parts of the code based on the outcome of a comparison because all the channels won't be in the same state and so you'll need to learn about masks (but that's for another day).

Welcome and hope you enjoy the program.

oddson · 11 Mar 2010

MichaelBenjamin wrote: oddson wrote: I'd say making effects requires a more detailed understanding of DSP than putting together Synth modules.

but you could aswell invert that sentence and say: "I'd say making synths requires a more detailed understanding of DSP than putting together effect modules."

which doesnt make much sense either way, because what is putting together modules?...

I meant you can do some interesting things with SynthMaker by routing modulations signals between high-level modules without really understanding what makes them different from their analogue counterparts. It's a little like taking Moog modules and tying them together with control voltage cable.

But chaining the stock reverb to the stock phaser won't really do anything for you... it's just lame. So typically effect creators what to do something that requires understanding DSP algorithms or at least the theory of what is going on and tying lower-level pieces together to make it work.

But your point is valid.

Motiv · 11 Mar 2010

Thank-you as I say I am understanding more and more by looking at the example synths; I have also been looking at what I wish to achieve, taking ideas and inspiration from other Vsts I have.

Still mind boggled though but as you say, I can not expect to know everything straight away.

I appreciate the advice Thank you

trogluddite · 11 Mar 2010

Motiv wrote: taking ideas and inspiration

Good choice of words - wanting to be 'inspired' is the right way to approach things - don't make things hard for yourself by trying to exactly copy other people's work. Many people seem to get despondent and negative because they want to emulate a favourite plugin or effect, not realising that they are trying to copy something that maybe took a team of programmers years to get right. Your realistic attitude will serve you well. If you have a whacky, original idea, there will always be people here who can help you with the technical stuff - and sometimes the geeks and gurus can learn a thing or two from new users looking at SM from an unusual angle.

Don't neglect the modules in the analysis folder, they are your biggest allies - I still spend a lot of time making tiny little schematics with an oscillator at one end and an oscilloscope at the other, just to see 'what happens if I...' Few ever end up as fully fledged VSTs, but they all add to the 'toolbox in the brain' - and once in a while you will stumble across something that would never have come to you from studying the academic theories.

Oddson's earlier point about the workings of the knobs raises another good point; don't get hung up on how your plugins look at this stage - the GUI design part of SM can get very complex and it will distract you from getting the core DSP skills that you need. Fancy graphics may help commercial designers to sell VSTs to gullible teenagers, but if you look at the tools used in pro studios (Pro Tools for example) you'll see (hear!?) that it's the sound and functionality that really matter.

aliasant · 11 Mar 2010

Motiv wrote: Thank-you as I say I am understanding more and more by looking at the example synths; I have also been looking at what I wish to achieve, taking ideas and inspiration from other Vsts I have.

Still mind boggled though but as you say, I can not expect to know everything straight away.

I appreciate the advice Thank you

Im still mind boggled after more then 3 yeas or so. Learning new stuff every day and having just as many epiphanys.....

Have FUN ! 🙂

Motiv · 12 May 2010

Thank-you for all the advice, still trying to figure it all out. Still trying hard though 😀

Jay · 12 May 2010

Welcome Motiv! 😀

Yep me too like Alaisant said, 3-4 years at it (just starting to learn SM code now) learning new things every day and loving it.

I can code VB,Java, Php, Html a little c++,DotNet ect but DSP boggles me due to the maths required. (dyscalculia).Luckily we have a tremendous amount of really helpful cool guys willing to help ( you've already met some of them ^^)and even share their fantastic creations which all aids the learning. So, i get by fine and so will you!

i don't have any better advice to give than you've already been given except, enjoy it ,start of small and watch those speakers 😉

Best regards

infuzion · 15 May 2010

aliasant wrote: I'm still mind boggled after more then 3 yeas or so. Learning new stuff every day and having just as many epiphanies.....

Took me about 3 years to understand 80% of SM. And that was with having a programmer's background, including some ASM.

Jay, I have "dyscalculia" also! 😉