Sound design VST synths Get that fat sound

MegaHurtz · 15 Oct 2009

probbably they have the right waveform in the wavetable of the oscilators. would be the most efficient way to make for a fat sound. and last but not least bug hunting and mathematical knowledge. pz!

rl · 16 Oct 2009

For a start you can try some of the common tricks: - chorus - delay and echo - mixing additional oscillators in, slightly detuned, the detune amount can be controlled by an LFO - sub oscillator

Nu Audio Science · 16 Oct 2009

- chorus (Any hints on tis RL i cant seem to come up with a nice algo at low CPU)

You may want to try phase modulation too Done well you can get some nice effects

NAS

exonerate · 16 Oct 2009

One way to get nice fat sounds for no extra CPU cost is to use a wavetable with a large size such as 2048, then apply the "float array overdrive" from the Developer Toolkit.

Cheers 😉

Exo

djbrynte · 16 Oct 2009

ok this is what i need help with i also wana share this with you guys. Its from U-HE who wanited to help some. the guys who made Zebra they telling me this...

http://www.musicdsp.org/archive.php?classid=3#196

That is one thing i dont get this its so advanced lol.

then i find this what do they mean.

http://blog.loomer.co.uk/2009/02/unison ... sizer.html

its so much stuff.... i hope u guys can help me out. i know im the nub and ur the pros so :P

just edit. Here is what they say on U-HE

Hi Johan, You might want to google for "SuperSaw" as a means to fatten up oscillators. Then you might need to learn about distortion within filters. A good starting point is this: http://www.musicdsp.org/archive.php?classid=3#196 That's all there is 8-) Cheers, 😉 Urs

djbrynte · 18 Oct 2009

sry im bumping. But i dont get how to do this can some one show me example with screenshot or sumthing or mybe explain better?

oddson · 18 Oct 2009

I have to assume you've done enough work here to understand some of the basics... if not you'll have to go back to the tutorials etc.

If you replace a sawtooth oscillator primitive (or any oscillator but usually not just a sine wave) with a set of them each with a slight detuning you get a resulting waveform with more complexity than a simple tuned wave.

You need to make sure the detune amount balance themselves around the correct pitch and it's more convincing if there is some drift through time (and still more of the phases are not all the same - which also minimizes the signal peaking issues where the result overdrives as the waves line up too much, especially at the first peak).

MegaHurtz · 18 Oct 2009

yes thats a fine place to fatten up your sound. actually i did the same "being inspired by sync modular years ago". plenty of good memory`s there.

djbrynte · 19 Oct 2009

thaank you dude ur so pro.. i love you :P oddson ur so good :P hmm i just dont know the values. I mean like whiat is good value etc thats the hard part 😀 but thxn so much guys.

MegaHurtz · 20 Oct 2009

between 0.0000x and 0.5 semitones. it works on octaves too.

djbrynte · 23 Oct 2009

check this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-32RY7UhNo

this is how i mean how does he get the fat sounds. is it some kind of filter. modulation on sumthing raw code?

MichaelBenjamin · 23 Oct 2009

oscillator layering and detuning.

djbrynte · 23 Oct 2009

ok sry for be dumb i understand now some one explained its just layering diffrent waves 🙂 and stuff.....

MegaHurtz · 2 Nov 2009

Its not really dumb if you get addicted to this, at all. Every one would like to see some patches done right. Keep asking 😀

djbrynte · 3 Nov 2009

ye mybe sone one could help me with a arp i can use in my synth 🙁 no one relay helps me out with this...

MegaHurtz · 3 Nov 2009

well.. what didnt it do?

sunsynth · 3 Nov 2009

Hi Johan,

never ever post no one helps here newbies... 🙁

Show us ur schematic so we can see ur bugs and we show u how to do it right dude!

djbrynte · 4 Nov 2009

ye ok. But i wanted help wit ha to find a nice arp. And i found one called exos arp and when i try import it i do sumthing wrong. A guy tryed to help me but he couldent do it. And i dotn wana spread my osm out.

aliasant · 4 Nov 2009

djbrynte wrote: ye ok. But i wanted help wit ha to find a nice arp. And i found one called exos arp and when i try import it i do sumthing wrong. A guy tryed to help me but he couldent do it. And i dotn wana spread my osm out.

Trust me Johan. Your osm is nothing special. Well. The only special thing about it is that its a huge mess and a bird that will never fly. If I were you I would give it out and then listen carefully to the advices others might give you. You wont regret it.

djbrynte · 4 Nov 2009

ok aliasant but i actually like my synth. I was editing it. And its just a mess for you because u dont know how i connected things. Its actually pretty simple. Basic things.

MegaHurtz · 4 Nov 2009

He means post an osm.. Its not quantum physics.

Sasu Honka · 4 Nov 2009

@djbrynte Sad to say this Djbrynte, but even on this thread you have been given more help that the topic is about. With your responses to other peoples generosity to help you out you have been shooting yourself, this whole forum and all SM users to the leg. The only reason for not putting you on my ignore list is that you post such bullsh*t that someone has to straighten things up a bit. Your attack on this forum is preventing the ones REALLY searching for help to be ignored. Your answer to Aliasant tells everything anyone needs to know about your attitude.

You and only you did this to yourself! Nobody else! You have now lost my support. Sasu

djbrynte · 4 Nov 2009

ah ok sasu. I dont have time to mess with you. i know u dont like me but i cant help it. Actually i find ur trancegate worked after all. I looked the whole thread of this completly mess. Was so hard to find that one who worked. The bugg is gone to. I only need to find an arp now. Thats what im after so if u have any good to come with just up it for me or tell me what to do. Instead of say like this ^ After all i find ur trancegate very usefull. It works now! finaly. omg i worked to hard to find a working one. The first one u linked to me that alisant had posted was not working.

MegaHurtz · 4 Nov 2009

I was really dissapointed in you previous response dude. Don`t get agressively ignorent, it is you who is`nt up to the level. Asking for solved problems is not the same as solving them. Be shure most of us got the basics down.

djbrynte · 4 Nov 2009

ah i give up its a virus in this forum or sumthing. tryed to make a answer.

MegaHurtz · 4 Nov 2009

dont get me wrong.. i really want to know what you do wrong when it dont work. seeing this in an osm is a shure way of solving your problem. Everyone here has a vision on how to make an analog moddeling synth. That is not the stuff i lay awake at night trying to figure out. It`s childsplay. Especcially if you dont know about why it does what you did.

djbrynte · 5 Nov 2009

i actually find an arp now. What im doing wrong i dont know.. All sequenzers i found i was making midi to the arp. And then from arp to gate on envlope like that but i find an arp now. But thnx taking ur time with me im just a noob. But sasu i understand the parts u told me about asking alot of things in the forum. But when u say like this to me i dont feel so happ y:( i dont wana be ur hate object. Im sry what i now have done wrong. I just want to learn. And sry i dident see ur trancegate untill last day. I was actually looking this topic very hard now. And finaly found it. So thnx for the trancegate. But i feel not so happy that u telling me this :/ ah ok whatever now i have my arp. I think megahurtz posted the arp :P i will see.

It was runBeer2run who posted that arp 😉 anyway i hope u dont get me bad. I have hard time to read all this. My english isent the best. And i some times dont understand everything u wright. So its why im so horrible dont get me wrong. sry for taking my time.

btw i missed the arp its nearly in the first post. Dident know it was this easy. Hmm and i dident know what an arp was at the beginning :/ im so dumb crap....

Shalako · 7 Nov 2009

The Secrect is virtual ciruitry. They have literaly recreate an analog circuit in a digital environment (PC). The other secret and the reason that the sound is so fat is that the waveform is not a constant, it's evolving. This is how the hardware analogs get such a thick sound because electrcity is unstable and so are the ocillators. So some code to create a evolving waveform is in order. Unfortunatley I don't program much so I can't help there.

djbrynte · 7 Nov 2009

ok thnx dude this explain alot...

trogluddite · 7 Nov 2009

Shalako wrote: electrcity is unstable and so are the ocillators

Reminds me of my old Teisco analogue synth - you have to wait 20 minutes for it to warm up before it stays in tune - until I turn my heating on - then I have to retune again! This instability of the electronics does give old synths a lot of their 'organic' sound. A very basic way to approximate this is to add a very little bit of a random number to the inputs of oscillator and filters etc. - but not too much or it sounds like an orchestra when they do their tuning 😕 If you put a ticker to the random number module, then the randomness changes over time - you could have a knob even to control how much randomness.

The Luddite

Shalako · 7 Nov 2009

trogluddite wrote: Reminds me of my old Teisco analogue synth - you have to wait 20 minutes for it to warm up before it stays in tune - until I turn my heating on - then I have to retune again!

I know what you mean, I have a moog, it's the new voyager rack, sounds beautiful but when they don't use digitally controlled analog oscillators, so even with the new tecnology they still need to be tuned although it is a very small amount tuning involved.

trogluddite wrote: A very basic way to approximate this is to add a very little bit of a random number to the inputs of oscillator and filters etc. - but not too much or it sounds like an orchestra when they do their tuning 😕 If you put a ticker to the random number module, then the randomness changes over time - you could have a knob even to control how much randomness.

Nice... Im definitely going to try this on my next project.

MegaHurtz · 8 Nov 2009

-keep it simple!!. -get yer two basics right (pitch/velocity). -don`t eff the above.

To be real thats what you need to get it started. Njoy!

djbrynte · 10 Nov 2009

thnx

Shalako · 11 Nov 2009

I was going over one of my fattest synth sound to see how I created it, I used LFO's on mix and phase, Tube distortion, Tape distortion, EQ, Compression and even some reverb to add a bit more depth, I also used multiple Oscilators with sepetate LFO settings and each with a slighty different parameters from the last. The key here is to be very very subtle with your settings only just enought to have the slightest impact on your sound. Admittedly the reverb can be left out of this formula.

So where to start, with some LFO's on your pitch a phase and mix, just have them in the background with fix settings, even try using one lfo to control another lfo's rate. use 2 Ocilators as if they were one and out a low pass on the second so that the highs dont get messy. Next is EQ, low is fat so boost your lows just a little. Then Distortion. And if you like some Compression. Yes that's right all of this goes inside your oscillator before it reaches the filter.

Remember: The key is to use to lowest settings on everything your not trying to use effects your only trying to fatten the sound. Why do all this? Because it's the easiest way to emulate the sound of a real circuit, it;s the imperfections that make things beautiful.

Now you could write some code to make a fat synth but you'll probably find that you are just writing extracts from the theory above however it would save in CPU, but unless you plan on haveing more then three OSC then you should be fine (I think)

MegaHurtz · 11 Nov 2009

Goole this.

- Fm (and harmonics) - Ringmodulation - Combfiltering - filter types and poles - bits/bites/samples/cycles

djbrynte · 12 Nov 2009

this is so advanced i just need an exmaple osm. Sumthing easy that explain little. Like showing how comfiltering and more. Like an example how to fattern up oscilator and stuff like that 😀 dont need to be very advanced would be very nice with little example osm so i can learn fro mthat so hard to understand all this in english. More easy to learn from pics also.

and thnx for all help so far very nice dudes 😉

Shalako · 12 Nov 2009

djbrynte wrote: this is so advanced i just need an exmaple osm. Sumthing easy that explain little. Like showing how comfiltering and more. Like an example how to fattern up oscilator and stuff like that 😀 dont need to be very advanced would be very nice with little example osm so i can learn fro mthat so hard to understand all this in english. More easy to learn from pics also.

and thnx for all help so far very nice dudes 😉

Wish I could help here i'm to new to the software at this stage I only know the principle from previous experience and what I know about sound engineering. Hopeffully someone else can post an example. I would also like to learn from it (in terms of learning the software)

djbrynte · 12 Nov 2009

ye nice that u also intrested in this. I hope we get answers.

labelwhore · 19 Nov 2009

Shalako wrote: I was going over one of my fattest synth sound to see how I created it, I used LFO's on mix and phase, Tube distortion, Tape distortion, EQ, Compression and even some reverb to add a bit more depth, I also used multiple Oscilators with sepetate LFO settings and each with a slighty different parameters from the last. The key here is to be very very subtle with your settings only just enought to have the slightest impact on your sound. Admittedly the reverb can be left out of this formula.

So where to start, with some LFO's on your pitch a phase and mix, just have them in the background with fix settings, even try using one lfo to control another lfo's rate. use 2 Ocilators as if they were one and out a low pass on the second so that the highs dont get messy. Next is EQ, low is fat so boost your lows just a little. Then Distortion. And if you like some Compression. Yes that's right all of this goes inside your oscillator before it reaches the filter.

There are some really good ideas in here. Thanks alot man, I'll have to try some of these techniques on my next synth. 🙂

Shalako · 20 Nov 2009

Shalako wrote: So where to start, with some LFO's on your pitch a phase and mix, just have them in the background with fix settings, even try using one lfo to control another lfo's rate. use 2 Ocilators as if they were one and out a low pass on the second so that the highs dont get messy. Next is EQ, low is fat so boost your lows just a little. Then Distortion. And if you like some Compression. ]Yes that's right all of this goes inside your oscillator before it reaches the filter.

I have now had a chance to play around in synthmaker and can confirm that it is possible to get a fat souning osc using some of the suggesions above. So have a play around and see what you come up with. Idealy you want to merge these extras in to your Osc and keep it as simple as possible the more complicated it gets the messier it will sound.

labelwhore · 20 Nov 2009

I employed a couple of the techniques in this thread in my latest synth and am happy to say they worked quite well.

[old link]

Shalako · 20 Nov 2009

labelwhore wrote: I employed a couple of the techniques in this thread in my latest synth and am happy to say they worked quite well.

[old link]

Yeah most people would tell you you have to use code, but it's all about thinking outside the square, although code would produce better optimized results so it has it's uses.