(V) Sample and Hold

skOre · 7 Jun 2005

What I actually mean is a (V) sample&Hold module. Would rock. Big time.

skOre · 7 Jun 2005

What I would need it for... FRACTALS 😀

jorge · 7 Jun 2005

I was already convinced after your first post 🙂

We do have plans like that, I think two versions will come in the future. First a way to draw on top of a bitmap which is supported by Gdiplus so will be easy to implement.

Later on we'll probably have a BitmapToMem converter. The mem connector would be the same as the array connector so you'd be able to plug your bitmap to a code component and process the pixels, each of the SSE channels would be used for A, R, G and B and it would work with values going from 0 to 1. I think the possibilities are endless, including the creation of little very efficient games.

skOre · 7 Jun 2005

ARRrrrr, gimme gimme 😉

rl · 7 Jun 2005

jorge wrote: Later on we'll probably have a BitmapToMem converter. The mem connector would be the same as the array connector so you'd be able to plug your bitmap to a code component and process the pixels, each of the SSE channels would be used for A, R, G and B and it would work with values going from 0 to 1. I think the possibilities are endless, including the creation of little very efficient games.

yessss, and with FFT and iFFT it would be possible to convert sound spectra to images and vice versa - thinking about "visual sound processing"

Shifrin · 7 Jun 2005

rl wrote: yessss, and with FFT and iFFT it would be possible to convert sound spectra to images and vice versa - thinking about "visual sound processing"

Now that sounds interesting 🙂

Being able to process image data is a cool idea, you could write texture generators for GUI's etc!

Shif.

skOre · 7 Jun 2005

I always had this neat little idea of an instrument that would change its color according to the mood you presetted it to... Now with real time music analysis... 😀

Tom7777 · 8 Jun 2005

Some algo music is sort of based on fractals, this would allow for fractals that move and output soundscapes, although i have made something a bit like this already, nothing amazing though becuase the modules simply are not there, this should make it much better though 🙂

unkargherth · 8 Jun 2005

Tom7777 wrote: Some algo music is sort of based on fractals, this would allow for fractals that move and output soundscapes, although i have made something a bit like this already, nothing amazing though becuase the modules simply are not there, this should make it much better though 🙂

Which modules you refer exactly? What should be their functionality ?

Tom7777 · 8 Jun 2005

V sample&Hold module, V boolen/area subtraction, poly area are a few things that would make what i want to do possible but its not based on known formulas or anything, just experiments like with the Looped knob Test basically though.

Tom7777 · 8 Jun 2005

Synthmaker is not suppost to be a graphic app though, but becuase it allows for a modular based graphic environment various things that compositing software allow for can be made already from the modules provided and becuase some of these have convertion to values that can be used with maths a huge amount of cool things can already be made. I have already made quite a few things that others probably think require new modules becuase i am very experimental and don't limit myself to various thing becuase im not sure on how to make something i basically just use trial, error and imagination and work the way to a goal i have set over a period of time depending on how creative that idea is.

unkargherth · 8 Jun 2005

Mmmm. Sorry. I misunderstood. I though you where talking about fractality applied to sound, for everevolving soundscapes and this kind of things

Tom7777 · 8 Jun 2005

I think i could sort of do something along those lines if i could code better, most fractals are just mathmatic formulas so im sure they could blend with DSP quite well, True fractal based graphics would be very hard to simulate unless a load of new graphics modules were added anyway though, sure you can do it with lines colors and transparency but the CPU would be extremely high for anything decent that was automated.

I know what you mean though, non graphic audio based manipulation, this should be possible im guessing but i have not tried anything like this yet. The first step would be to study something like the Mandelbrot fractal and its various formulas and then think about how you could apply its mathmatics to audio. I guess it would just need full understanding of the various fuctions of it and some imagination 🙂

unkargherth · 8 Jun 2005

Mandelbrot/Julia Sets. are rather dificult to use for this tasks, as they are "recursive" in certain ways. But Some other'ss could be usable, mainly chaotic attactors and things like these

Tom7777 · 8 Jun 2005

Most of the calculations would probably output noise or grain type sounds im guessing but would still be very interesting, i made a few code modules using fractal calculations but i havent tried them yet. Only a few of them should work really unless the code is changed a lot, its quite fun really 🙂

skOre · 15 Jun 2005

I'm currently having some free time at work, and been doing some thinking on iterated function systems like fractals.

Besides my need for the (V) Sample&Hold, I also thought about using that new line tool and a normal math based computation of the needed points...

jorge · 15 Jun 2005

skOre, I created the following components but didnt want to release them yet as they need testing and I'm busy with more important ( IMO ) sound stuff.

I think some of these components will be useful for working with what you call the (V) sample & hold, I'd like to be sure. Before they get released I'd like to have a clearer idea if they'd work for what you're trying to do with fractals etc. Here's a descritpion of what they do:

BView When it receives a trigger it draws a view on top of a bitmap. BArray Loads an array of bitmaps from file and saves/loads them with the schematic so the files dont need to be present. BGetAt Gets a bitmap from a bitmap array BLoad Loads a bitmap from a file BResize Resizes a bitmap by a specified percentage BSave Saves a bitmap in one of the formats jpeg/png/tiff/bmp FindFiles Finds all the files in a specified folder and outputs a string array with their file names ILoop Integer loop. When it receives a trigger it loops N times starting with First. SASort Sorts a string array in alphabetical order SMach Implements a state machine SGetAt Gets a string from a string array

There are many other Bitmap related components that are now very easy to create, like a BitmapSample&Hold and a BitmapArray that doesnt load from file but accepts the normal bitmap connector as input and maybe a Custom Bitmap component that accepts width and height and creates a new bitmap for you to draw on top. Feel free to request the ones you need. For me a View Sample&Hold doesnt make much sense but I think a Bitmap Sample&Hold would be enough as now you can draw on top of a bitmap using the normal ( V ) components.

skOre · 15 Jun 2005

Somebody help me find my jaw back...

But why does (V)S&H make no sense? Would it be getting too complex?

(Does the Bitmap S&H support transparency?)

edit: did I say release these at least as R&D ?

jorge · 15 Jun 2005

skOre wrote: But why does (V)S&H make no sense? Would it be getting too complex?

No, not a question of complexity. Just a question of making sense of it. If I think of a Bitmap I have no problems with the concept of holding drawing information in a bitmap. The (V) connector is more than drawing as it also implements the mouse interaction. For me the (V) connector doesnt hold any state, it just passes drawing and mouse messages through. I guess the (V)S&H you mentioned could be implemented with a Bitmap but better than that is to go lower level and work with actual bitmaps. I think it would achieve what you want anyway, I would just like to be sure.

skOre wrote: (Does the Bitmap S&H support transparency?)

Yeah.

skOre wrote: edit: did I say release these at least as R&D ?

They are actually in the latest release but hidden. If I sent you a schematic with the components you'd be able to use them but it does take time to test and manage them and if they change ( like new version having different input/output connectors, different file format saving etc ) it complicates things a bit.

Might be better to make sure all the components you need are there and release them all in a couple of days after testing them. I can also send you a version of SM showing them in the toolbox if you want to test them but you cant rely on any schematic you save and you cant post your schematics here in the forum until everybody has the new components.

Anyway, back to sound engine / code component bug fixing.

skOre · 15 Jun 2005

k 😉

Tom7777 · 15 Jun 2005

Jorge those modules look amazing 🙂 i don't even think we will need (V) Sample and Hold anymore now 😉 It seems as if SM is becoming a general media app and not just audio based 🙂