Midi Knob Semi Automatic

infuzion · 2 Dec 2008

I think you're on to something great! But I'm not sure about using 2 MIDI wireless Ins & MIDI split... why not merge both those modules into 1 so it is easier?

aliasant · 2 Dec 2008

infuzion wrote: I think you're on to something great! But I'm not sure about using 2 MIDI wireless Ins & MIDI split... why not merge both those modules into 1 so it is easier?

Do the modifications you think are necessary. 🙂

oddson · 4 Dec 2008

The modifications are not 'necessary' but if it's going to be used by others (or, better yet, if the MIDI learn is going to be made part of the stock modules) it should be as clean as possible.

In your notes you mention that there is a trigger issue with 'EdOpen'.

Why have 'EdOpen' at all? If the editor is not open I can't see how a right-click is going to be received anyway?

Nice work 🙂

oddson · 4 Dec 2008

in the module notes you wrote: There are some requirements for this to work. In the Presets VST Array module I have 3 wireless inputs. They will together with an extension build your knobs midi-parts name for the preset manager.

I think you shouldn't deviate from the stock preset module if you're proposing this as a replacement for standard controls. That stock convention already allows for multiple inheritance layers ("OSC1 - Filter - Envelope - A") when used as it is in modules like the stock Envelopes for example.

Some of the other stuff on naming seems a little strange to me (but I'm not all that familiar with what most VSTs do with parameter names).

aliasant · 4 Dec 2008

oddson wrote: The modifications are not 'necessary' but if it's going to be used by others (or, better yet, if the MIDI learn is going to be made part of the stock modules) it should be as clean as possible.

In your notes you mention that there is a trigger issue with 'EdOpen'.

Why have 'EdOpen' at all? If the editor is not open I can't see how a right-click is going to be received anyway?

Nice work 🙂

Well. I thought that if I have a plugin. I open it. I set it to receive from my hardware knob "a" Then I close the plugin. I open another plugin and assign knob a to some parameter. When I turn this plugins knob I will also turn the knob of the plugin that I have closed down. Right? That is not good. I have tried hard to find a way around this but Im not clever enough 😠

aliasant · 4 Dec 2008

oddson wrote: I think you shouldn't deviate from the stock preset module if you're proposing this as a replacement for standard controls. That stock convention already allows for multiple inheritance layers ("OSC1 - Filter - Envelope - A") when used as it is in modules like the stock Envelopes for example.

Some of the other stuff on naming seems a little strange to me (but I'm not all that familiar with what most VSTs do with parameter names).

Of course. I didnt even think about making this stock module 🙂 But first we have to make it work. Right now it doesnt. Maybe Im thinking all wrong but I think the Editor Open needs to be in there and as it is now that doesnt quite work. I have also tried reading thru Cocos Reaper Forum to try and find out how I can receive midi data inside a vst effect. Havnt found much on this Im afraid. Here is a link to some info: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29073

oddson · 5 Dec 2008

Even if it never ends up as a stock module (it's always a little presumptuous to assume it would) if you're sharing it with the world it should act like the stock stuff as much as is possible rather than make everyone figure out the differences. Since a right-click MIDI learn is the main feature I'd stick with that for the public version.

As for what doesn't quite work yet I haven't looked it over carefully enough yet to comment.

oddson · 5 Dec 2008

aliasant wrote: ... I thought that if I have a plugin. I open it. I set it to receive from my hardware knob "a" Then I close the plugin. I open another plugin and assign knob a to some parameter. When I turn this plugins knob I will also turn the knob of the plugin that I have closed down. Right? That is not good. I have tried hard to find a way around this but Im not clever enough 😠

Ah... so you only want it to operate while the Edit window is open??? I thought it was so that it only learned MIDI when the editor was opened (which would be redundant).

That's counter-intuitive to my thinking... the very time I want my MIDI to work is when I don't have the soft-control open in the host... I'd assume any MIDI assignments would work whether the editor is open or not.

For that I'd try this:

This should prevent changes from getting through unless the edit window is open. The other way I think you would get false zeros as a trigger fires with the change of state from the boolean input. (I've not tested either way since it involves saving VSTs and trying them out in different hosts.)

aliasant · 6 Dec 2008

Hey oddson. I think that worked =) Thanx.

Now I wonder. You say you would want midi assigned knobs to work when the plug is not opened. I dont understand how that could work in this case. What if I have several different plugs all receiving cc data from the same knob. Wouldnt that get a bit confusing unless all different plugins are receiving on different midi channels. That is a bit harder to achieve using this semi automatic method. You could have your midi controller sending out on different channels of course. Hmmm. I think I have to make this an option that can be set for the entire synth/effect.

Maybe this feature, "only receive cc data when plugin is opened" could be a preferences thing in the plugin. A simple switch to turn on or off.

Anyways. For me this feature would be very useful for example live performance. You want to tweak your VST synths and effects from a big midi keyboard with tons of knobs and sliders.

Ill post another version after I have done some tweaks.

Update: ok I uploaded a new version to the first post [old link]

I did fix some things so now its easier to put the Midi Receive and Display module in any knob. I renamed the wireless so that they will receive the Label wireless... weird english..... Fixed a couple of other bugs.

I also made a small chorus effect with the knobs in. Makes it fast if you want to test how it works in your DAW.

I still havnt figured out how to actually receive midi inside a VST with reaper. Help out by saving the osm to a vst and test in your DAW please.

aliasant · 7 Dec 2008

It seems Im doing this for nothing.

At least in Reaper I cant get the midi data directly into the plugins. I have tried both as a VST and as a VSTi. I can control the knobs but I have to go thru Reapers cc assigning procedure which is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

It does work as a stand alone .exe so that encouraging.

Is it possibly so that I need to have a midi selector thing inside the plugin itself?

aliasant · 7 Dec 2008

Made some changes. It now uses a VST String instead of VST Array to save the current knob midi stuff. Works better a cleaner. Still no success using them inside my DAW, Reaper. I think maybe we need a new primitive for this. One that receives Midi CC on all available channels. It has to, some how I think, bypass the DAW. [old link]

aliasant · 8 Dec 2008

I made a simple .exe that shows how it works. Start the exe and set your appropriate midi in and audio out.

aliasant · 12 Dec 2008

I think Ill just drop this project as it seems impossible to realize.

I even took out all the midi in the knob and I can still control it fully in Reaper so I dont see why its necessary to have any midi in at all. I would have loved if my way worked. It was so much faster, but you cant win em all.