SynthMakermarkneo ·
I've come up with a "holy grail" algorithm and I'm wondering what my options are:
1. give it away 2. patent it 3. licence it using a non-disclosure agreement 4. encrypt the algorithm in a vst?
any suggestions would be appreciated
mark
can an algorithm be kept secret in a vst?
From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
Acrobat ·
markneo wrote: any suggestions would be appreciated mark
there's a 5th you did not consider: DESTROY IT
should be fun! 😀
markneo ·
Acrobat wrote: markneo wrote: any suggestions would be appreciated mark
there's a 5th you did not consider: DESTROY IT
should be fun! 😀
you're right! I hadn't thought about destroying it. Now that I have, I can't think of any advantages in doing that.
giving it away seems to have a lot of advantages and all the other choices come with a lot of hassle in exchange for the carrot of the possibility of some cash and prestige. Mind you, I do like money! 😍
mark
markneo ·
If the algorithm was E=mc2 then destroying it would be a compelling option. Einstein probably didn't consider the consequenses too much, I think he probably wanted the prestige.
Acrobat ·
markneo wrote: Mind you, I do like money! 😍 mark
I hate money, luckily, I live in a country where they have quite relative power, anyway I was only joking, happy you accepted my irony.. 🙂
Hope your algorhythm will rock the audio scene for real!
infuzion ·
markneo wrote: 4. encrypt the algorithm in a vst?
I'm sure a memory scanner would find the raw ASM, & one can deduct things by feeding a steady value in & seeing what comes out.
markneo ·
infuzion wrote: markneo wrote: 4. encrypt the algorithm in a vst?
I'm sure a memory scanner would find the raw ASM, & one can deduct things by feeding a steady value in & seeing what comes out.
If a memory scanner allows you to reverse engineer a dll then having a trade secret seems like a waste of effort?
I thought there were vsts that seccessfully kept their algorithms secret - melodyne?
stefan ·
When the application of algorithms becomes advanced enough you get security through obscurity. Not the best kind exactly, and not something you really can rely on.
If you can, find other ways to earn money from your ideas than from keeping them secret. Sometimes it's close to impossible I guess, but it's worked for plenty of folks (usually way smarter than me though... 🙂).
markneo ·
stefan wrote: When the application of algorithms becomes advanced enough you get security through obscurity. Not the best kind exactly, and not something you really can rely on.
If you can, find other ways to earn money from your ideas than from keeping them secret. Sometimes it's close to impossible I guess, but it's worked for plenty of folks (usually way smarter than me though... 🙂).
I was hoping to live off dividends and just have fun being a mad scientist until ...Doh 😮
markneo ·
markneo wrote: stefan wrote: When the application of algorithms becomes advanced enough you get security through obscurity. Not the best kind exactly, and not something you really can rely on.
If you can, find other ways to earn money from your ideas than from keeping them secret. Sometimes it's close to impossible I guess, but it's worked for plenty of folks (usually way smarter than me though... 🙂).
I was hoping to live off dividends and just have fun being a mad scientist until ...Doh 😮
If it's not clear,this is a reference to the stockmarket crash.
MegaHurtz ·
lol.. maybe you should post it. Nothing is sacred in the hands of an expert sound designer. They can copy anything by touchy feely stuff. The question is would they like to. I had the same feeling about my granular synthesis library. And i decided to keep it close to my heart. i think for the people who not interested in diy.. dbleu is plenty. money schmoney.. i yust love to play around in it. working on me as a musician.. better.
markneo ·
MegaHurtz wrote: lol.. maybe you should post it. .
I just want to consider the options first, but I hope I can do that.
MegaHurtz wrote: Nothing is sacred in the hands of an expert sound designer. They can copy anything by touchy feely stuff. The question is would they like to. I had the same feeling about my granular synthesis library. And i decided to keep it close to my heart. i think for the people who not interested in diy.. dbleu is plenty.
It's a realtime perfect pitch detection algorithm!
MegaHurtz wrote: money schmoney.. i yust love to play around in it. working on me as a musician.. better
Same here. I love R&D and music. Hate paperwork
stefan ·
Just to make sure, it's not based on auto-correlation?
If it isn't, I'd be very interested to see how it works, especially on signals that lack the fundamental frequency component!
markneo ·
stefan wrote: Just to make sure, it's not based on auto-correlation?
If it isn't, I'd be very interested to see how it works, especially on signals that lack the fundamental frequency component!
hi stefan, I don't want to let on too much just yet, but it's time domain - biomimicry.
MegaHurtz ·
Clip it, detect the drop and have it timed?
MegaHurtz ·
not perfect.. but it works a treat on guitars.
stefan ·
markneo wrote: stefan wrote: Just to make sure, it's not based on auto-correlation?
If it isn't, I'd be very interested to see how it works, especially on signals that lack the fundamental frequency component!
hi stefan, I don't want to let on too much just yet, but it's time domain - biomimicry.
Auto-correlation is time domain too (best way to detect fundamental frequency I know of) 🙂 I don't get the biomimicry part at all, but I hope I will when you show us something in the future! \o/
MegaHurtz ·
that brings me to the following.. if anyone can show me the way to realtime future based pitchtracking, as in having the pitch before cycle. I will declare you holy!
markneo ·
stefan wrote: I don't get the biomimicry part at all
"Web definitions for Biomimicry A conscious strategy by designers to observe and learn principles of design from nature."
as opposed to coming up with some clever maths
MegaHurtz wrote: that brings me to the following.. if anyone can show me the way to realtime future based pitchtracking, as in having the pitch before cycle. I will declare you holy!
"Web definitions for ESP extra-sensory perception; knowledge of an external event without the intermediary of any of the known senses. ESP includes the phenomena of telepathy, clairvoyance, and precognition."
If I had ESP I would have sold my bank shares last year 😊
MegaHurtz ·
Thats why.. Hahah you cracked me up XD"
MegaHurtz ·
roflol
MegaHurtz ·
you would have to port the christ himself.
MegaHurtz ·
dou you care to share with us wich event in nature does this? im very interested in hearing. This does still imply i`d clip, count, sample and divide sr by X. Yust curious.
markneo ·
MegaHurtz wrote: you would have to port the christ himself.
when it comes to religion I'm a devout agnostic - I believe deeply that I'm not sure 😇 one of the things I love about researching psychoacoustics is the feeling that if there is a god then this is a way to get closer to her. I've got a lot of respect for maths whizzes but I think there is the risk of being pompous by assuming that a mere mortal can come up with some maths that is more elegant than anything in nature - "humble in the presence of god".
Acrobat ·
markneo wrote: I believe deeply that I'm not sure 😇
Religion is much more a practice than a statement, exactly the same goes for audio research... 😉
markneo ·
Acrobat wrote: markneo wrote: I believe deeply that I'm not sure 😇
Religion is much more a practice than a statement, exactly the same goes for audio research... 😉
true -talk is cheap. 😉
Now you've got me worried that I'm a closet christian in denial 😕
MegaHurtz ·
it`s yust the love 😀
markneo ·
MegaHurtz wrote: it`s yust the love 😀
😀 "tough love" 😀
MegaHurtz ·
you`d have to use a particle accelerator to create an excact duplicate of existance. Seeing this happen.. (take notes). pinpoint the moment where you played the waveform. and synchronise.
markneo ·
MegaHurtz wrote: you`d have to use a particle accelerator to create an excact duplicate of existance. Seeing this happen.. (take notes). pinpoint the moment where you played the waveform. and synchronise.
sounds scary. I'm picturing musicians with protective clothing.
I like the idea of a plugin that learns as a musician performs, so it can preempt. Not ESP, but close. VST5.0 with neuralnet!
MegaHurtz ·
musicians are connected, but really diggin the idea of some form of plugin collectivism. I think you`d like the studies done with vintage EEG. lots of frequencies and states to play with. Think this is you aswel. Pz, Lukas!.
markneo ·
MegaHurtz wrote: musicians are connected,
right on brother! 😀
MegaHurtz wrote: I think you`d like the studies done with vintage EEG. lots of frequencies and states to play with.
for sure. I've had lots of fun with brainwave synchronizers, going into alpha, and theta when you start a lucid dream and you get a big rush of endorphins. I've checked out the monroe institute and tried to find the combination of frequencies that are supposed to get you into an 'out of body' (remote viewing)experience but didn't have any luck. In the end I decided that sleep and sex give me all the alpha and theta time I need.
MegaHurtz wrote: Think this is you aswel. Pz, Lukas!.
? 😕
MegaHurtz ·
yea alpha waves.. takes you way back does`nt it. drewl.
Acrobat ·
markneo wrote: that are supposed to get you into an 'out of body' (remote viewing)experience but didn't have any luck.
I had it once, many years ago, believe me it's not so pleasing as you would expect... 😉
markneo ·
Acrobat wrote: markneo wrote: that are supposed to get you into an 'out of body' (remote viewing)experience but didn't have any luck.
I had it once, many years ago, believe me it's not so pleasing as you would expect... 😉
did you have any particular technique? Monroe's technique is alleged to combine two brainwave synchronization signals together, one at about 5hz (theta) and another very high at about 75hz. It didn't work for me.
markneo ·
I sorry about bringing up pitch detection again. I don't want to tease you with vapourware but I have to say that I'm a bit drunk with excitement. It looks like RT polyphonic pitch detection is doable. drool 😀
MegaHurtz ·
sounds very interesting. XD' the alpha`s made me drool..
markneo ·
MegaHurtz wrote: the alpha`s made me drool..
yea, alpha(~8hz) = creativity. It's a limitation of DAWs imo that you can't effectively get yourself into an alpha state and make music AND operate the daw at the same time, unless you put the daw in continuous loop record for an hour or two and switch off the monitor, or spend enough time on so that you can operate it on automatic pilot, but with constant software upgrades that's hard to get to. I personally think that one of the many benefits at Abbey Road in the sixties was their strict union job descriptions, the engineers weren't even allowed to change a patch lead, they had to ring up an amp room technician to come up and repatch. The engineers didn't have to do any real left brain thinking so they could work in an alpha state with the musos. I'm sure this wasn't the purpose behind union demarcation but I think it was good side effect.
Acrobat ·
markneo wrote: Acrobat wrote: markneo wrote: that are supposed to get you into an 'out of body' (remote viewing)experience but didn't have any luck.
I had it once, many years ago, believe me it's not so pleasing as you would expect... 😉
did you have any particular technique? Monroe's technique is alleged to combine two brainwave synchronization signals together, one at about 5hz (theta) and another very high at about 75hz. It didn't work for me.
No, sorry no tip as it happen for a chance about 10 years ago.
MegaHurtz ·
7hz.. cuts the mustard. for alpha`s. 8hz is very rigid (sensory resonance) derived from 0.5hz.
If i may ask you.. did you use a time domain setup. or a real and imaginary one.
mazzel!
markneo ·
MegaHurtz wrote: 7hz.. cuts the mustard. for alpha`s. 8hz is very rigid (sensory resonance) derived from 0.5hz.
interesting! I'll have to google sensory resonance and 0.5hz. The schumann resonance (~7.83hz) seems to be popular as a significant frequency.
MegaHurtz wrote: If i may ask you.. did you use a time domain setup. or a real and imaginary one.
mazzel!
I used the brainwave synchronizer built into cooledit, it just uses level and interaural time difference to pan the sound over headphones at the brainwave frequency. Actually the main use I had for it was as a sleep replacement when I was working double shifts. I also tried all sorts of things in synthedit with oscillators, trying to reproduce monroes out of body setup.
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