DOCUMENTATION

Tom7777 · 24 May 2005

I don't think so IMO becuase questions will always be asked as long as everyones making synths and effects. Most of the questions here are usually slightly more advanced as a lot of people that use SM have worked with modular software before, the documents area will get much better im sure though and the following topics might also help -

Update* Docs CHM available for download

[old link]

bones · 24 May 2005

I might think that your point is valid if I had even a fraction of the information required to make any-fucking-thing at all in SM but as it stands I can't do even the most simple things and the current state of the documentation is such that it provides no help whatsoever. e.g. Why the fuck does this simple schematic make sound all the time and not respond to note imput from the keyboard?

And the fact that you provided a few links also reinforces my point. There needs to be a lot more specific information in one obvious place, not scattered through the forum. Besides, there is no useful information at either of those links.

Tom7777 · 24 May 2005

hmm well i was only trying to help, i have seen someone with the same name as you on the KVR forums so i was guessing that you already had some modular app knowledge and would know the basics but i guess i was wrong, that is basically all the documentation there is at the moment anyway other than what there is on the website as SM is still in beta and the higher level modules will be made later on when it is in version 1. The following forum post will help you with what you want to do -

I'm not getting on with this program at all...

stefan · 24 May 2005

Bones: for different reasons, when directly connecting poly stuff to a mono connector, SM treats the whole exction as a mono sections (not doing any voice allocations etc).

Just use a poly multiplier instead and a poly2mono converter after it.

And I agree, sooner or later there needs to be way more documentation and other resources for the users. But at the moment, the features aren't really fully stable, so I guess Malc is focusing on them instead atm.

It'll come 🙂

And oh, don't connect the gate to the boolean input of the adsr. That boolean input is to tell if this adsr should hold the process until it's release stage has finished (the final volume adsr should), and you can connect a string to it and set the string to "TRUE".

infuzion · 24 May 2005

Everyone here who has built modules learned with the same set of documentations: basicly what is listed on the website, forum discussion, & whatever we can download & pick apart. Difficult, yes, impossible, no.

Also, please don't curse. No need for it. cheers

malc · 24 May 2005

I completely agree Bones. It's been difficult trying to get the balance right in terms of where to spend my time. Recently I've been focusing totally on the software and (as you've mentioned) answering posts on the forum.

There is alot of useful information in the forum but you're not the first to point out that this is far too fragmented and scattered around. This should all be in the documentation in a central place where it's easy to reference.

I know infuzion has been trying to get the wiki going and I very much appreciate his efforts but there should be no need for the wiki to to be a patch up job for a main documentation set that is clearly lacking in content.

I'll do another round of documentation updates very soon - hopefully this week. I can understand that without this information, trying to use the software can be extremely frustrating. I'm sure you're not the only one that is struggling with this.

Thanks for bringing this issue back to the fore.

bones · 24 May 2005

Tom7777 wrote: hmm well i was only trying to help, i have seen someone with the same name as you on the KVR forums so i was guessing that you already had some modular app knowledge and would know the basics but i guess i was wrong,

There is only one of me and I can use SE perfectly well because it is relatively well documented [up to a point]. And with SE, if you hook things up they just work. I didn't need any special knowledge beyond 20-odd years of using synths to make things in SE. SM requires a whole different perspective and set of experiences.

Then there's the fact that I am not here to tinker, I want to make instruments to use in our songs. How many users are there here versus the number of available SM-created VST/i? I am really surprised by the lack of output from SM users and it doesn't look like I'll be adding anything of my own for a very long time.

stefancrs wrote: Bones: for different reasons, when directly connecting poly stuff to a mono connector, SM treats the whole exction as a mono sections (not doing any voice allocations etc).

Which is precisely what I'm talking about. How the fuck would you know that?

And I agree, sooner or later there needs to be way more documentation and other resources for the users. But at the moment, the features aren't really fully stable, so I guess Malc is focusing on them instead atm.

Like every other damned developer. One of the big reasons I ditched Fruity was because at v2.7 there still wasn't any useful documentation. Whilst SM is still pre-version 1, it has already cost me twice as much as Fruity and is considerably less useful without doc's. Jeff's just as bad with SE but at least it is way easier to use out of the box.

What concerns me is that the longer it is left, the bigger the job becomes and the longer we will have to wait. Meanwhile there are way too many really basic things that are left to trial and error to sort out. e.g. What's the difference between the "Freq" and "Pitch" outputs on the MIDI->Poly component? What exactly are all the different input circle thingies?

And oh, don't connect the gate to the boolean input of the adsr. That boolean input is to tell if this adsr should hold the process until it's release stage has finished (the final volume adsr should), and you can connect a string to it and set the string to "TRUE".

WTF! Which is the "Boolean" input? Does the ADSR automatically get the trigger info from NOTE-ON? If not, how do you tell it when to trigger?

The most useful thing in SE's documentation is the step-by-step tutorial on making a simple synth as it explains all of the little things you need to know along the way. All those little things are completely missing from SM's documentation at the moment, yet it seems to me that creating a basic tutorial wouldn't take much more effort than goes into answering some of the questions I see around here. In other words, Malc and Jorge seem to cater to those who already know what the're doing at the expense of new users with less experience at this level. That doesn't seem like a very good way to attract new users to me.

lalo · 24 May 2005

bones wrote: I might think that your point is valid if I had even a fraction of the information required to make any-fucking-thing at all in SM but as it stands I can't do even the most simple things and the current state of the documentation is such that it provides no help whatsoever. e.g. Why the fuck does this simple schematic make sound all the time and not respond to note imput from the keyboard?

And the fact that you provided a few links also reinforces my point. There needs to be a lot more specific information in one obvious place, not scattered through the forum. Besides, there is no useful information at either of those links.

hi bones! hi understand clearly you're trying to do it following the SE way 🙂

these are related topics wich are still a matter of discussion i guess

Runaway CPU / Polyphony / Denormal Problem ? Oscilators and Midi triggering

SM is still at an early stage of its potential i think a little more patience will provide us a great app in some month...in some months a lot of higher level components will be there...some more documantation will surely help tho 🙂

lalo

lalo · 24 May 2005

bones wrote: WTF! Which is the "Boolean" input? Does the ADSR automatically get the trigger info from NOTE-ON? If not, how do you tell it when to trigger?

The triggering mechanism is a bit different from SE ... the oscillator is somehow 'triggered' by the MidiToPoly component...this deal to some confusion in the design wich does'nt follow the classic 'analog' paradigm.. jorge said that MidiToPoly and ADSR will get a treatment very soon... in the mean time try to look inside the example file to grasp the very basic concepts 🙂

lalo

stefan · 24 May 2005

Bones: fwiw, I'm with you. We need more documentation and more higher level components to attract the musicians / synth builders. At the moment, a majority of us hanging around here in the forums basicly are programmers in one way or another. We have to support the ones not being programmers. I know that you for instance are a very talented synth builder. You shouldn't have to fiddle with the very lowest level at all really, and as soon as I have more time off, I will continue to strive to make more high and mid level modules for anyone to use.

And yes, voice management / envelope triggering etc is atm total magic from the SM users POV. I know that Jorge has got plans for fixing this though.

Shifrin · 24 May 2005

I can understand your frustration Bones, as I am sure everyone here can. There are certainly some things that aren't initially clear/intuitive regarding SM's operation - and something along the lines of 'how to make a simple VA from scratch' would be very useful indeed to new users.

You're also right about the lack of SM synths/effects floating around, this is due mainly to the software being still beta and some ongoing bugs like 'slowly rising cpu (due to stuck notes?!)' et al.

I'm sure it won't be too long before the docs are more meaty, and there are some example synths/effects to check through and fiddle with. And also quite a few more 'higher level' components which new users will no doubt find very useful to start with!

Shif.

jorge · 24 May 2005

bones wrote: I might think that your point is valid if I had even a fraction of the information required to make any-fucking-thing at all in SM but as it stands I can't do even the most simple things and the current state of the documentation is such that it provides no help whatsoever. e.g. Why the fuck does this simple schematic make sound all the time and not respond to note imput from the keyboard?

Bones, just let us help you and answer your questions. I'll try to answer the ones you already asked. Just keep asking, specially the basics. If with your help we identify ways in which SM could work in a better way it would be great, that's if you have the time.

bones · 24 May 2005

malc wrote: I'm sure you're not the only one that is struggling with this.

I'm not struggling, I'm nowhere near that far along. I don't have enough basic information to even get started so if you are going to spend some time on the doc's, please start at the very beginning. As I said, a basic tutorial on creating a simple synth would be fantastic [input->osc->filter->LFO->VCA].

jorge · 24 May 2005

Bones, here is my first reply related to your questions.

SM is made with efficiency as a priority, so you dont want to have things running when they dont have to. That's why when you create a synth you have a poly section and a mono section:

The white connectors represent poly data and the blue ones represent mono data. When you play notes, they create voices that need to be added up before they are processed by the mono section of the schematic. Here is the PolyToMono component that takes care of adding all the voices into one mono channel:

I'll post a few more in a short while.