Little Thingy i am working on / Sylverneer (beta)

Neptune · 6 Mar 2008

I have done some changes to the synth. It features now:

- 2 Wavedraw OSC (41 Wavetables preloaded) - 1 Wavedraw/Morph OSC (input from OSC1+2, Morph,Lock Wave,Save) - Phase Mod per OSC - Invert Wave, Invert Phase - Each OSC has its own LFO - Each OSC has its own Vibrato - 1 StepLFO - Effects (Rev/Del/Chorus/Phaser/Stereo Enhancer/Gain) - Stepsequencer (8Steps; Directions: Up,Down,Random; BpmKnob) - Avg. CPU 15-25% (~30% with all effects and all 12 OSC running)

--- see link below ---

Things to be done: - Sequencer directions are setup for 8 Steps at the moment. Granulation for Down/Random 1-7 to be connected - Sequencer takes up to 50% when not in Mono mode? Enhancement possible? - Semitones -11 to be added - Knob Default values are not loaded when switching to blank bank? - StepLFO, optimization on Tempo (maybe non-stepped knob)

If you find any bug, please post here. Thanks for any idea what can be done better.

Cheers, Neptune

theun · 6 Mar 2008

Neptune wrote: "Little thingy that I'm worki.ng on"

Hi Neptune,

I dld your synth 2 hours ago and I'm playing it, studying it, all the time since. "little thingy" is a "little" understatement I must say.

This is real good stuff!

To be honest, this is one of the best creations in SynthMaker that I have ever seen and heard. This is a real nice synth that inspires to play! Soundwise it is very good. E.g. I like the sound of "space journey" very much. The synth is not hitting the CPU very hard, around 20% here (2GHz dualcore).

To me this "little thingy" is at least soundwise at the same level as Helix or Cobalt (both non-SM).

It is the more impressive that you've built this within the constraints of SynthMaker CM.

One remark I have though, is the pitch it plays at. Notes played sound 2 or sometimes 3 semitones lower than normal, e.g. middle C sounds as A# or A. I have tried to find what is causing this. However I didn't find it yet.

Cheers!

Neptune · 6 Mar 2008

Thank you very much theun.

I´m really glad that you like my "Little Thingy" 🙂. "Space Journey" is a great patch, indeed. There will be more of this soon.

I will check the pitch immediately to see what is wrong there. Maybe it´s due to (I think it´s) "oversampling"? since the pitch knob is modifying the Nyquist frequency (if i´ve understood the wiki correctly). I have set the knob already to 4decimals (press shift) but maybe 5 decimals will be better to set more precise values. But i will also check the detuners again.

It wasn´t easy to get this far with the limitations of the SM CM version and i´m missing 1 or 2 things i would have build in. But finally i´m at a state now where i focus on bugfixing and optimization.

Once the minor issues are solved i will start to do 128+ patches for it.

infuzion · 7 Mar 2008

Nice work! Seems more or less easy to use, nice patches, & the knobs match the silver background very well. Over all good layout. Looks like you worked hard to shrink the OSM. The Morph OSC is a neat trick 🙂

Some criticisms: - Drawing on the 3rd OSC is too offset from the mouse. - Don't know where the LFOs route to, or if you can route. - I usually expect the master to be on the bottom or far-right, though the LED does draw attention well. - Pan readout should be L10 to R10 or the like.

Idea: ? Master effect shutoff button, since sometimes I prefer to use other 3rd party effects.

Neptune · 8 Mar 2008

infuzion wrote: Some criticisms: - Drawing on the 3rd OSC is too offset from the mouse. - Don't know where the LFOs route to, or if you can route. - I usually expect the master to be on the bottom or far-right, though the LED does draw attention well. - Pan readout should be L10 to R10 or the like.

Idea: ? Master effect shutoff button, since sometimes I prefer to use other 3rd party effects.

Thanks a lot infuzion for your review.

- I dont know what happened to all three OSCs. The mouse offset appears on all of them. But even it might be a bug in my schematic, i like it 🙂. First i thought of deactivating the mouse draw completely but i´ll keep it as it is. - The routing matrix is one of the things i am also missing in the synth. I just started to understand how it works. But i dont think i can shrik my schematic so much to build it in. So atm only Filter LFOs are available (Routing: OSC1-LFO1-Vibrato1) There are other things like oddsons stereoPanBalanceEG (RoundPan Topic), he wrote some weeks ago, i really miss a lot. This effect on a phaser and a supersaw pad 😍...... - The Master knob will be (maybe) shifted next to the preset manager. - I fixed the pan readout. Not exactly what you might have expected but some kind of.

- The idea with the "all effects off button" is maybe doable. But i´m not sure atm (at the moment) how to handle the volume normalization, since switching off all effects while playing can cause serious demage to your ears and/or monitors sometimes 🙂. Don´t now if a midi-trigger Velocity=0 will help. Have to check this.

Updates done: - OSC3 has now also the load wavetable option. So it allows now: Draw/Load/Morph/(Freeze)/Save ("Visible" invert would be nice, but i havent´´t figured out yet, how to do this..🙂 - Some Knob readout values changed(Pan/Pitch - Little GUI modification (StepLFO and Sequencer) - Sequencer directions finished. Up/Down/Random 1-8Steps. Thinking about how to realize "up+down" (16Steps in a 8Step sequencer). Maybe "string add" will help.

To do: A lot 🙂

Question: Is there a way to replace the knob bitmaps for the full synth in a short way? Is this possible with Synchronize all? Otherwise i will have to change 80 knobs manually 😉. But then i will feed them all wireless from a global location. This could also shrink down the osm filesize. 2 Bitmap Loaders instead of 160.

Going on to optimize this little thingy. Neptune

infuzion · 8 Mar 2008

Neptune wrote: Is there a way to replace the knob bitmaps for the full synth in a short way? Is this possible with Synchronize all? Otherwise i will have to change 80 knobs manually 😉. But then i will feed them all wireless from a global location. This could also shrink down the osm filesize. 2 Bitmap Loaders instead of 160.

Try the wireless bitmap loader; I'd like to hear if it works.

Even if you have to load each one manually, they'll all share the same bitmap cache, so memory usage is kept down.

Neptune · 13 Mar 2008

The replacement of all bitmap loaders by one "global" one did not reduce the filesize.

But its nice to have, if you want to change all knobs in one single step.

Updated version: Added Routing Matrix Added some test-patches Added some ui mod buttons

---- link at the bottom -----

oddson · 13 Mar 2008

You can beam the actual bitmap down to all the knobs so that you're only storing it once. I tried this and strangely the file size went up even though the primitive count dropped (but that could be

You can also centralize knob properties at the uppermost level. This will get rid of a large number of primitives (everything except the label from each one).

What I don't know is what does this really save other than a bit of disk space. Does it run with less memory? Does it run with less CPU?

infuzion · 13 Mar 2008

oddson wrote: You can beam the actual bitmap down to all the knobs so that you're only storing it once.

Like I linked to before: you can have 1 or 999 copies of the same bitmap knob, & they will all use the exact same bitmap memory location.

Nu Audio Science · 13 Mar 2008

Listen to infuzion Something we asked for long ago and was implemented long ago 😉

NAS

oddson · 13 Mar 2008

😊

infuzion · 13 Mar 2008

Nu Audio Science wrote: Something we asked for long ago and was implemented long ago

LOL I'm just reduction-anal, so I remember these things 😇

Neptune · 14 Mar 2008

infuzion wrote: Nu Audio Science wrote: Something we asked for long ago and was implemented long ago

LOL I'm just reduction-anal, so I remember these things 😇

🙂 I´ve also done this to see if maybe something can be added to the "Reduce Filzesize" on the Wiki. But i have not found anything really important to add to.

Neptune · 19 Mar 2008

Another update on Silver II

Silver II (beta 1r)

Some bugs need to be fixed:

- Sequencer starts automatically when presets are switched (but i have no clue about the rootcause yet) - Some other small ones (wave slot label, .....)

If you find any bug please post your findings here. Thanks for any info and hints in advance!

Cheers and enjoy Neptune

P.S. Any news about SM-X?

infuzion · 20 Mar 2008

This is coming out real nice Neptune! Patches are cool also.

A few thoughts: * How do I switch GUI panel to Sequencer? * Getting large screen-wise... nothing else to do though except slide the ADSR knobs up a touch, & perhaps make the LFO area a 3rd panel with the sequencer/effects. * IMHO better if the StepLFO was in the Matrix * Would be clearer & easier to me if the Matrix row was placed above the effects, & the Delay/Amp/Output row put below the effects. * I'm not sure if the ADSR in each OSC is for the master OSC volume, for the filter, or the volume before the filter? + save GUI custom-colors with the patches :P edit: Add some kind of arrow between the source & destination of the patch bay would help those who aren't used to such things.

Neptune · 23 Mar 2008

Thanks Infuzion.

I reworked the GUI and switched the levels of some rows.

To have the StepLFO in the Matrix is what i tried before and now again. Once i made it to work (OSC1 to TGate, OSC2, OSC3 to Signalflow) the whole thing ignored the detuner of the 2nd, 3rd OSC. So the whole synth was playing in the same octave, even if the 3 OSC had different octaves?? Since it worked only as expected with all OSC to TG i skip this idea for the moment. If this synth would have 4 main OSC´s i would spend more time to solve this (2OSC Pad + 2OSC TG).

The matrix has been reworked a bit (8Pairs/Arrows) and is now placed below the two mod source lines (LFO/Vibrato)

What i tried to do also is to have radiobuttons to switch the wavedraw display. If switched it should show the Wave or the Filter Env Curve or the Filter Cut/Res Curve. But i failed to get the Filter Cut/Res Curve to work. I have an signal analyzer and draw graph for filter curve, but i can´t get it to work since the signal input missing.

Any idea how to get the Filter Curve to work in a synth?

chironex · 24 Mar 2008

Just checked it out...

The synth sounds very nice...but, it's nothing new, of course. I simply don't know what kind of stuff it would come in handy for.

Neptune · 24 Mar 2008

chironex wrote: Just checked it out...

The synth sounds very nice...but, it's nothing new, of course. I simply don't know what kind of stuff it would come in handy for.

Just another analog synth to compose MUSIC and make Effects with. Generate your own waveform (tools can be found here on the forum), load it in, modify the frequency, create your own sound, get a midi-keyboard, have fun. That´s all. 😀

chironex · 24 Mar 2008

Well, of course music, but the question is, what aspect of the music (or what type of music) it would be used for.

Of course, this is the kind of thing that could be used for lots of stuff. Let me make a few suggestions:

--Add Amp envelopes for each voice --Get rid of some of the built-in FX (Chorus and Phaser, for example...Kjaerhus makes excellent effects such as these) and replace with a volume control for you seq 🙂 --For the morphing, add the selection of RM-ing, FM-ing, syncing, etc. the two waveforms instead of just crossfading.

IMO, this would make the synth far more versatile.

...sorry, I critique quite a lot.

Neptune · 24 Mar 2008

NP, objective critique is very good and i´m happy about your feedback. This synth is still in a very early beta stage (1t of planned 3z). This is just the ~blueprint. Enhancements are to be implemented. Who knows, maybe still in Silver II or maybe in Silver III.

Neptune · 18 Apr 2008

Another small update

-- See link below --

Feedback is very welcome.

I had some problems when using this synth in Cubase. Running 4 instances + an external effect + 2 instances of a drummachine ran fine (ok 🙂 CPU in this case was already ~80%), but when saving the project Cubase crashed. Maybe you can create the vsti by your own and try to reproduce it please on your host. Thanks!

Cheers, Neptune

P.S. I still have not startet to do patches. The available patches are only tests but there are some nice ones to test the synth.

Neptune · 25 Apr 2008

Coming near to the final stage:

--- link below ---

Silver is not longer Silver II since the 1st Silver was never really in use.

Updates done:

- Added Envelopes to each (main) OSC. The SubOSCs are controlled by those too. - 20 Patches - Gui changes - Bigger Routing Matrix

Next steps: - Knob control: OSC-Envelope 1 values are adapted by ENV2+3 - Routing Targets - Envelope Curves to be shown when a knob is moved, and hidden when the mouse is released. - Whatever you think what needs to be fixed

Cheers Neptune

rl · 26 Apr 2008

small glitch: in the wave drawing osc's the mouse cursor doesn't match the drawing position. It's off by a factor of two.

Gruß aus München

Neptune · 26 Apr 2008

rl wrote: small glitch: in the wave drawing osc's the mouse cursor doesn't match the drawing position. It's off by a factor of two.

Gruß aus München

It´s fixed now. Maybe more a workaround then a fix but it works now. I connected another float (value 15) to the width input inside the x to Index module.

Further updates - The OSC-envelope knobs can be now controlled by OSC env 1 - Added some new routing targets - Combo Filter (LP/HP) in the effects section.

I think this is near the final version. Need to finish the wavetable section now (some more waveform to select from...) Many thanks to all for your optimization hints.

Anyone who wants to submit a preset 🙂?

--- link below ---

Gruesse aus FFB Neptune

Neptune · 2 May 2008

Next small update

- Small changes to the Stepsequencer (+/- 2 Octave, Steps) - Fixed the OSC routing (Ring OSC1 with OSC2, O2 with O3, O3 with O1) - SubOSCs have now their own detuners incl. Semitones and Finetuning - Different predefined UI colors (selectable) and/or color select dialog - 32 patches

--- link below ---

Cheers Neptune

Neptune · 8 May 2008

Silver (592kb)

- Small modifications of the stepsequencer - Auto ADSR replaced by manual ADSR - Some presets

Cheers

electrogear · 10 Jul 2008

Hi Neptune,

I noticed that you have a 'Dummy' Multiplexer inside Osc 1 2 & 3, where all of the outputs are connected to the input of the frequency input of the wave draw oscillator. Can you tell me what this is for? Is it for changing between effects to prevent glitching or something like that?

Cheers,

Mike

Neptune · 10 Jul 2008

Hi,

i will remove them, once this synth is ready.

At the beginning those multiplexors helped me to test some routings, so they are still there since this synth is still w.i.p. But in fact they are really dummy ones and can be removed.

stw · 10 Jul 2008

A nice one!! Some appealing patches already. 😍 I'm new to the whole Synth maker thingy and started with my own .osm some days ago Right now i'm somehow stuck with some oddities. But work like yours keeps me going... 🙂

infuzion · 10 Jul 2008

I'd like to test this out for you, but I don't hear any audio, & can't read it to help fix it since everything is wireless (which I recommend against).

Neptune · 10 Jul 2008

I already started to replace the wireless connections again by wired connections.

But at the moment i´m a bit busy with other things like moving to another country.....

As soon as i have more time again (~ in 4 weeks hopefully), i´ll continue to fix some major issues.

Here´s the latest version.

Neptune · 3 Apr 2009

Hi folks,

i have continued to work on my little thingy.

But i have some problems now.

1.) When being in mono mode (small portamento) and a slight vibrato is routed to an oscs phase i get a laser-gun like sound when a note is triggered (test patch 4 or 9 as an example) Can maybe someone please have a look what could be the cause for this problem.

2.) In SM i can use the sequencer without problems (i am using the latest beta), but when i compile the osm to a dll and load it into MiniHost or Reaper the sequencer does not work anymore. Only the first note is triggered. If you have the latest official release installed (1.1.2) i would be happy if you could compile the osm and check if the sequencer works (patch 11/31/48/..). I cant find the cause for this neighter.

Sorry if the schematic is a bit messy, but it is based on the version i created once using SM CM.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Cheers, Neptune

Neptune · 6 Apr 2009

Ok. Problems found or partially solved

1.) The laser-gun pitch in mono mode results from an incorrect wire 2.) The problem with the sequencer seems to be related to the latest beta. No problem to run it with version 1.1.2

What i really need to fix now is the problem with the step-lfo (trance gate). It does not save presets 🙁 especially when changing the amount of steps.

No update for the moment.