SM groove box collab!

infuzion · 23 Jun 2007

I think it is a cool idea, but I think most of the old-timers are waiting for SynthmakerX which will have better event triggering.

sunsynth · 23 Jun 2007

Hi exo,

i have the Tap-Button ready!

But as infuzion mentioned - based on windows-timer it's a 'little' non-perfect...

I used some tricks that we can discuss later...

So - i'm your man! Walter

exonerate · 23 Jun 2007

cool!

i was trying to make the tap button earlier, but was unsucessfull .

so that is great news , i know it wont be exact but round about will be good enough for this purpose.

cheers

Acrobat · 24 Jun 2007

ok exonerate let's start then!

I'm back from a wedding party so I didn't see you agree to my original purpose, happy to see you started the thread!

mumble mumble....what comes first... mumble mumble...oh yes:

I'll put down some schemes 'bout the general architecture of the machine, not pretinding'em to be followed in details, but I'm sure they're gonna be useful and will give some ideas and uniqueness to the project....

Oh, I'll use empty labeled modules in SM so that can even be used as a schematic.

...well, yes, SM can be used also to write down sketches! It's like brainstorming! ...like the old software "Intuition" !

Acrobat

AngularMomentum · 25 Jun 2007

infuzion wrote: I think it is a cool idea, but I think most of the old-timers are waiting for SynthmakerX which will have better event triggering.

I am with you on that one, I made several groove sequencers and they where all unreliable when exported...

As soon as SMX does come out, I am all with this project!

angstrom · 25 Jun 2007

I agree

I have a sequencer here which takes midi keyboard input notes, loops them graphically on a grid sequencer and maps each note displayed to a midi cc dial. So it is a cross between a 'cubase' style step sequencer (key input) and a 'moog' style sequencer (knob) . But of course the limitations of the event system means it is a strange collision of code and vstparam arrays.

roll on SMX v1 !

Acrobat · 25 Jun 2007

exonerate wrote: heres something similar to what i have in mind for the sequencer... sequencer pic

That's very clear and rational, a very "Apple" way to show things on the screen and I like it very much. I made some drum synths schemes just the patching needed:

1 for kick & toms 1 for rim/snare 1 for the clap

Unfortunately at the moment I can't have access to my site FTP due to server mantainance, so I can't post the .OSM If you know some place where I can upload, tell me!

For the sequencer problems, well, can't we wait for that and concentrate on the synth section?

A.

Acrobat · 25 Jun 2007

AngularMomentum wrote:

As soon as SMX does come out, I am all with this project!

What do you mean with SMX? SynthMaker for MacOS X? A.

Tom7777 · 25 Jun 2007

What do you mean with SMX? SynthMaker for MacOS X?

No, it's a test version of synthmaker with beta versions of features that might get added to the program. I think the new timing system might have been done so thats probably why people are saying SMX, it might be a while untill it's added in though but better timers are something i have been waiting for also as i have made some sequenced stuff also.

exonerate · 25 Jun 2007

Unfortunately at the moment I can't have access to my site FTP due to server mantainance, so I can't post the .OSM If you know some place where I can upload, tell me!

yeah heres a great site that i use all the time...... http://www.box.net/

you can have up to a gigabyte of storage space for free, which is more than enough for sharing osm's, plus there's no adverts or anything and instant downloads.

For the sequencer problems, well, can't we wait for that and concentrate on the synth section?

hmm... we might have to wait i'm not sure, basicly at the moment i have a simple sequencer made with gate hold and velocity.

i have it set up using samples and the sequencer triggers the samples, well kind of i've had to hack my way around some problems, basicly the sequencer outputs a trigger on every step which causes the sample to reset to the begin, then you can use the velocity control to change the volume of each step so if you set the velocity to zero then it will mute the sample but the sample is still playing. this is causing bad clicks because basicly the volume is jumping up or down on any note.

so i don't know i'm going to keep working on it but there are a lot of limitations doing it at samplerate, if the current events system was up to the task this would be easy.

anyway i'll post the shematic soon to show what i've managed to do, but i'm really not satisfied with how it's working or could work.

but yeah theres nothing stopping us working on the synthesis side of things.

cheers

Acrobat · 26 Jun 2007

[quote="exonerate"]

but yeah theres nothing stopping us working on the synthesis side of things.

cheers

This what I've done for the project:

http://www.box.net/shared/l5kezsykal

First, sorry for poor english and then please tell me if this OSM has some sense for you... in that case, I'll complete it with hi-hats and cymbals and we can start transforming those "mute" modules into real sounding ones.

Critics welcome, it's my first post!

A.

Acrobat · 26 Jun 2007

[quote="exonerate"]

i have it set up using samples and the sequencer triggers the samples, well kind of i've had to hack my way around some problems, basicly the sequencer outputs a trigger on every step which causes the sample to reset to the begin, then you can use the velocity control to change the volume of each step so if you set the velocity to zero then it will mute the sample but the sample is still playing. this is causing bad clicks because basicly the volume is jumping up or down on any note.

I see... That's the case of a drums sampler and it's bad news, yes.. In a drums synth, what comes more to my mind is how to optimize voice managing, I can't see any limitation but polyphony and the CPU stress, just using mono signals and triggered envelopes, but maybe I'm underestimating the task...

What comes to my mind, also, is that mysterious "Voice Tag" in the Voices2Poly module, which Stefan once defined as "a work in progress" and might could change radically the way we assign voices, don't you think so?

I'll try to check if it's already functional or not...

If any of you remember, the old CS80 from Yamaha and other synths from the seventies had an optimization of voices based on rotation of available oscillators:

The keyboard says: "hey, I need a voice for an E4!" And the CS upper part replies: "Ok, I give you VCO number 6 which just finished a C2!"

It's crazy, but maybe it's possible to do the same with virtual elements.

A.

Acrobat · 26 Jun 2007

exonerate wrote: now i'll be honest i'm not sure i really understand what a groove box is( a drum machine?) and i've never used one. but thats why i'm interested because it will be a whole new learning process for me.

For what is intended as a GrooveBox, well, for what I know and judge from my point of view, not so long time ago some people in Detroit put together a 303 and a 606 (as also Roland suggested in its commercial ads) just because they were a bergain in toy shops and started a totally new trend in music called acid. I think that's one of the first examples, in 90s, and custom made since it wasn't a single machine but a couple ones sync with a DIN connector. But there were already some other machines doing such things already, like the Linn and Procussion which had some bass sounds over the typical drum samples. Also the AKAI MPC series can be considered fundamental in the raise of grooveboxes, but it was (and is) used more for Hip-Hop, which, sincerely, is a genre I don't follow too much. I mean, principally, it's system performing drum and synth lines in some way with a flexible step sequencer, where the synth lines were originally synthesized or sampled basses, then over the years and across models from different manufacturers become equipped with more complex waveforms and fx and so on.

Recently appeared some models dedicated to guitarists (Zoom, Boss ones, but that products have a specific target of costumers and lack the features and openess of real groovebox like the MC-303 or MC-505 from Roland or YAMAHA SU-700, to name a few, which are evidently not built to simply accompaign guitarists but for every kind of electronic music.

One of the most recent success in this area are also the KORG grooveboxes, think there are 3 o 4 different models, used very often in projects of electro, electronoise, drum'n'bass and recently powered by a small valve to add saturation and distortion. Those are very good examples, imho.

In virtual, there are a few examples, since in a soft-sequencer you can easily build a set-up of that kind assembling different plugins and triggering them from the main window. The only plugs I can consider a GBox are Sonic Charge MicroTonic, basically a drumsynth taht can produces simple synth sounds and FXpansion GURU, based on WAVs, but they totally lack the equilibrium between drums and synth parts anyway: they are more drum machines that grooveboxes.

In theory, we can say that EVERY sampler which has a step-sequencer and some control over shuffle or groove CAN BE a groovebox, simply if you choose not to load entire loops of drums or pre-programmed synthlines but if you work internally triggering samples of one note or one drum per trig. That's logic and in the spirit of real, original groove-creation.

A.

exonerate · 26 Jun 2007

Acrobat wrote: This what I've done for the project:

excellent! thats a great plan to work towards, i'm going to have a more in depth look later. but one thing i noticed was the wave morph knob to blend between waves, i already have this made and light on CPU too! it use's wave tables stored in text components. so the morphing is not done at sample rate. so thats done!

i'm of work for the next 3 days so ill go through your sketch properly and see if i can knock up one of the simpler modules to start with.

cheers