Music Technology Degree

nix · 21 Sept 2006

Hey electrogear 🙂 , I think if you can find work you enjoy, that is ideal. I wish you every success if you are bold enough to leave a grind for something closer to your heart. I'd hate to encourage you to leave though, if responsibilities couldn't be met down the track. Difficult choice, bro. I hope you find your niche, nix

electrogear · 21 Sept 2006

Well that's the good thing I suppose;- at the minute I don't have too many responsibilities. I've left those behind too. I'm 22, I finished with my fiancee, moved out of the flat, and I'm back with the parents..... funding for it shouldn't be too difficult, as I've got enough to pay for the first year, and I should get a grant. That combined with a part time job should see me through. I'd like to move out soon though. At the moment I'm doing this as a bit of a (increasingly obsessive) hobby. 🙂 I'll always have work to fall back on (even though I don't enjoy it!), as there are a lot of companies looking for C&I technicians right now, and the money isn't bad (when I come out of my time) but I'd rather do something I enjoy for a bit less money.

Thanks 🙂

Mike

nix · 22 Sept 2006

Fair play to qualify as a technician. It seems like you've got the option to have a crack at music for a career though. I've heard it said that it's better to regret something you have done than something you haven't. Perhaps there's nothing to lose in this pursuit. I know I love producing music, but I think the pressure of commercialism would make it less of a lark, and take something away from the 'in your own time' approach. But if you think you have that proffesionalism, you may very well be successful. You obviously have a love for music, which hopefully may make for a rewarding job, if you decide to take this path. Best of luck, nix

sambean · 24 Sept 2006

I'd say go for it, and aim high.. You're already in a good position for actually choosing to go after doing something else for a couple of years, you'll be a lot more focussed and keen, which I think is the most important thing..

I went to uni straight from school, without really thinking what I wanted to do and ended up spending most my time on 'extra-curricular activities' namely the pub.. I only just passed with pretty poor grades which employers didn't look on very favourably. It was after a couple of years doing this and that that I found a Music Tech MSc which didn't have high admission grades.. The course was great, with folk from loads of different backgrounds and this time I worked my arse off to make up for my undergrad. I havn't looked back since...

The thing with University it's not just what you can get taught, it's what you can learn.. You have access to libraries with load of great books and journals, You have lecturers that are often keen if you show you are and you get to meet other like minded folk with different experiences etc...

As to the course choice, just do what you want to do, It'll be a lot easier and more enjoyable.. Try speaking to folk in both the computing and music department explaining your interests and see what they think. If I were to make a suggestion I'd say aim for more the computing/programming side as the skills can be used in loads of industries these days and theres a good chance in the final year you'll have the freedom to work in music related fields...

Anyway.. whatever you do, best of luck..

Sam

Kingston · 24 Sept 2006

I've done a BA Music Tech degree at the university of Huddersfield. Looking back I think it was a good move, but at the time and especially during the second year I was hesitant to continue it at all.

I had dabbled in music tech things for quite the many years (for my age) before university, and the course just felt *way* too easy. I talked with our course leaders and tutors and they said after 2nd year it'll be more of a challenge. They lied. (remember, university is a commercial institution, they need you as the customer)

Anyway, things got increasingly easier and I kind of floated past it all, feeling like I learned nothing. At some point I realised I could use the whole university and all the right departments to my advantage, and started doing courses independently at the electrical engineering and computing departments. This was a tremendous leap in learning, even if I got no credit for it (stupid administrative laws saying I must only do designated music tech courses..bleh).

Anyway, by third year I was doing ground breaking (to me) research and actually covering new ground, and was happy with things.

If you decide to go, remember that it's *you* that makes everything happen, not your course leaders and tutors. If you go, take full advantage of everything the university has to offer. If your department has too little cross-deparment interaction (with, say, electrical engineering and computing), I suggest you make it happen yourself.

electrogear · 24 Sept 2006

Wow, thanks for your help so far guys. Kingston, was it just a general Music Tech degree, or was it MT with computing? I am very keen, and I won't be happy unless I come out with a 1st, as I am very passionate about it. I am very self-discoplined in learning and homework etc, so I think I'll do OK. What was Huddersfield like in terms of gear/lecturers. Would you recommend any other unis?

Thanks,

Mike 🙂

Kingston · 24 Sept 2006

The full name of the degree is Bachelor of Arts (honors) Music Technology. As I mentioned I spiced it with some cross department studies I got no credit for, but thought was necessary to my advancement. Getting a 1st won't be difficult for you at all, seeing you have a great attitude about it already. You'll find very little people who actually share your enthusiasm and dedication. It happened to me, too. I've joked about it many times, but now that I have a music production business of my own... most of the people in our class... I would never ever hire them! Probably about 3 in 30 had the right attitude about it.

Huddersfield Uni studios and lecturers were ok, but nothing spectacular. They have a problem like too many courses like this: too many people and too little studio time in the big rooms. But basically it just about worked and nothing got in the way. It won't hurt if you have some gear of your own when you go there. If I had to rely on the university gear I would've left the place midway through.

I only know of one other Music Tech Uni somewhat: the Sibelius Academy Music Tech department in Finland. From what I hear the course is awfully similar to mine, and plagued by the exact same problems as Huddersfield, although the size of the department is probably 1/3 compared to Huddersfield.

Michael

electrogear · 25 Sept 2006

The degrees I've been looking at are Batchelor of Science. They're at Hull University (at Scarborough). I guess there would be a lot more work involved with the BSc, (correct me if I'm wrong!) Apparently there's about 50 studios at Scarborough Uni (although that might be my memory exaggerating things) so it sounds like they're geared up for it.

I've got a small set-up at home with a PC, 2 midi keyboards, monitors, a small mixing desk, acoustic guitar & piano, condenser mic and a couple of SM58 (ish) mics. I should hopefully have SX3 fairly soon if it comes down in price a bit with the ne Cubase 4 coming out, but at the moment I'm using free CM software, which seems to do the job. I've a fair bit of experience using SX though, as I learned it at college at A-level, and I was using my mates laptop for a few months.

So with that in mind, should it be enough to be able to do a lot of the work from home? In your course, was there a large amount of Cubase work, or was it less computer orientated?

Thanks again for your help,

Mike

Kingston · 25 Sept 2006

Some of the software we used during the whole 3 years in no particular order,

Matlab, Visual C++, MAX/MSP, Logic Audio (various OSX versions) sharc DSP proprietary development environment for their DSP chips, the same for PIC microcontrollers, Audiosculpt, Reaktor, Cubase SX(various Windows versions), Audiomulch, Photoshop, Dreamweaver

On both PCs and Macs, OS9, OSX, windows etc etc

I cannot know what your university will use, but don't worry about it at this point.

electrogear · 25 Sept 2006

Oh cool, so you even learnt graphics too? Was that off your own back or was it part of the Music Tech course? I'm surprised you used all that in the general Music Tech course. I'd thought Music Tech with computing would have included more of that. Thanks again for the info!

Mike

Kingston · 25 Sept 2006

Well we had a mandatory graphics + HTML course or two. It did come in handy, as it happened to be an area I had somewhat neglected back then.

The software I felt was most important to my studies was most definitely Matlab, with C++ and the proprietary DSP dev platforms coming in close second. I particularly enjoyed everything related to embedded DSP programming, and sharc DSP chips make this very easy. In fact a lot of it looks like the C/ASM component of synthmaker. We started the basic DSP development courses with MAX/MSP (good to visualise things first) and progressed to C-based DSP as we learned more.

I'm afraid I learned very little sequencing and production during my time at the Uni. I considered myself (and I obviously was) too advanced in that area already, and it was unfortunate so much of those courses were mandatory. I could have spent that time better.

Oh and one of the best courses I took was composition and arrangement for string quartets. Quite the leap from steady piano/guitar pop/jazz training I had.

(and now I really enjoy writing "correct" string sections)

In case you're wondering, the music tech course was and arts departments based. That means we were situated in music department, but had dealings with the engineering department as well. There was a separate Music Tech Bsc course there as well, but it was considered less prestigious.

This might differ greatly from one uni to another.

electrogear · 9 Oct 2006

Scarborough OK, I've been to Scarborough, and they have some awesome gear:

12 Studios Several Pro-Tools Desks with all sorts of effects units etc Some kind of revolutionary Surround Sound Studio All sorts of gear, effects, mics (100's of v. good ones), Mackie Speakers in every Studio... you get the picture anyway.

They offer 2 courses that I'm interested in:

1) Music Technology and Computing (about 50% of each) 2) Creative Music Technology

In the computing one, there is lots of programming, web design, etc, and you still get to do recording skills etc. Unforutnately there isn't much composition (i.e. Cubase) work.

The CMT course has only a little involvement with software development and programming, but lots of performing, composing etc.

There's tons of computers (Apple G5's?) and they're definately geared up for what I want to do, but it seems I want the best of both worlds. (So I might have to do a bit of cross-department studies as you suggested)

York York University offers a Electronic Engineering with Music Technology Systems course. It looks a lot more taxing - there's 8 -12 modules per year (compared to 6 per year at Scarborough) and lots of electronic circuit design, etc in there. I've been doing this anyway for a few years, but I imagine this will still be difficult stuff. There's not much in the way of performing, and only a little bit of recording skills. This course is more aimed at people who are going to be designing Music gear I think (which isn't really what I want to do).

There is only 1 studio at York. I think it's about 85% theory or something rediculous like that (so lots of written homework)

The problem I have now is deciding what to go for. I'm thinking of employability after I finish my degree, and also what jobs I'm going to be aiming at. Ideally, I think I'd like to be a software engineer, or maybe work in a studio (OK I know they are very different jobs). I think what I'm going to do next is ring around a few software companies, and a few studios, and ask what they think (from an employers point of view). Also, any suggestions from you guys would be good.

Sorry for my ramblings. Help would be much appreciated,

regards,

Mike

electrogear · 16 Oct 2006

OK I've visited York now, and, to be honest I wasn't that impressed with it music-wise. The guy I talked to said he wasn't into the music side of things, and he showed me a lot of the elctronics gear, which was very impressive, but not really what I was lookign for. Like I said there's only 1 recording room, and 1 other room with 4 PC's, so there's hardly anything in the way of music gear. The guy said that the course was aimed at designing & researching the hardware & gear that is used in recording music, so not really what I wanted. He said they teach C programming & Java, but apart from that there are no computing modules - just a hell of a lot of electronics and maths.

The thing that topped it off for me was the last thing he said to me....

Me: So thanks for showing me around. I'll have to go away and have a good think about which route I want to take - software/computing or electronics.

Lecturer: Why, where can you do Music Technology and Computing?

Me: Scarborough University.

Lecturer: (Sniggers)

Me: What?

Lecturer: Well without trying to sound too snide - Scarborough is not even on our academic level.

On that note I left. I can't believe that he was so desperate to get me on his course that he would stoop so low as slagging off other institutions. The funny thing is..... he was wrong. Scarborough Uni is part of Hull, and is in the top 20 for Teaching and learning, and the top 5 in general. It was also rated Britains friendliest University. (I felt that vibe from my visit there). I think that will make for a good learning environment anyway. I can't stand pompous tw@s like that. Half of the guys I saw around York looked like their mothers were still dressing them....

Cheers,

Mike

rlahalla · 16 Oct 2006

LMAO 😀

electrogear · 24 Oct 2006

Just about to apply. Thought I'd bring this to the top of the pile as nobody has given any opinions recently. I thought this would be the best place to come for that... ah well. 🙁

If anyone can offer any words of advice/criticism or whatever that's be great,

Cheers,

Mike

stefan · 24 Oct 2006

It's hard to come with opinions. My general advice when it comes to studies is something along the "do what you find most interesting and fun, not must lucruative" or something. Me myself studied electrical engineering, which is quite what all this DSP business is about 🙂

doug4350 · 25 Oct 2006

Hi Mike,

Maybe my story might cheer you up... Have you ever thought about going the self-help route??? That's what I did. I started out the ee route, but dropped out my sophomore year. The math was too fast and furious for me to digest, which cascaded to my other classes suffering as a result. I probably would've done better going the cs route as it wasn't as intense. My dad was an ee, so I probably tried it more for him than for what I had a better knack in.

Afterwards, I lived at home for ~ 6 mo's and then joined the USAF. I was assigned to fuels, and shortly after I decided I didn't want to flip burgers, sell sporting goods or gas up jets. I'd always been interested in technology. I managed to by chance hook up with this guy fixing band gear 😍 . He didn't have any formal training, but was a real hot-shot in both digital and analog. He let me used his Heath-kit system he got started with and showed me the "real" ropes. That lasted a few years until the bottom dropped out of the music service industry over here 🙁 . I hooked up with a local pc distributor as a tech (what a sweat shop). Then, I moonlighted doing afterhours stuff and eventually left the day job. After a few months of being my own boss, I'm where I am now. I met with one of the retailers that bought from the distributor and the rest is history. That was 15 years ago. I think I have a pretty impressive resume now (at least my dad says he's proud of me and he helped put the man on the moon!) I'm not rich, but successful in the sense I love what I do and get a fair chunk of change for it.

I guess the moral of the story is yeah, it's good to have a degree, but someone once told me that if you got the stuff, you don't need a piece of paper to prove how smart you are.

Aloha, Doug

jcsquire · 25 Oct 2006

Electrogear,

Good luck with your decision! It's important to be happy in what you do, and it's important to be able to find a job when you graduate. Check to make sure you get both those in whatever field interests you. Figure out what similar fields also resonate with you and that have jobs...if computer graphics meets both, or DSP development, or software coding, then perhaps tailor your music studies towards those ends. You probably won't stay in one field all your life...I don't know if the statistic is true, but I read that the average person changes careers now a little more than 3 times in his lifetime. I had 6 major career changes by the time I was 32...only after that was I certain I knew what I wanted to do!

The fact that you're on these forums learning now means a lot. Stay flexible, don't limit yourself to learn what others choose to teach (*do internships if possible!*), and keep your eyes open for the special opportunities to learn/do/experience more than your peers, many of whom will take the "default" course of action every time.

electrogear · 5 Dec 2006

Hello chaps,

I sent my application form in last week. I managed to get a top notch reference from an electronics Lecturer at the University of Lincoln, who also teaches me HMC electronics on a Thursday - so that's all good 🙂 I've also been offered a job here as a Technician starting in Feb (as I'm just coming to the end of my apprenticeship) so I'm going to take that for 6 months. That way I'll get 6 months experience here ... just in case I need a job in the future. It also looks like I might get funding for my degree, and I've been saving up £400/month so I should have a bit behind me to keep me going until I find a part time job, or if I get good at this SM lark then plugin sales 🙂

Cheers,

Mike

GaryG · 6 Dec 2006

All sounds good, should keep you in car batteries for a while. 🙂

Best of luck with it, I personally think the six months job experience is a great idea; obviously from a cash perspective but from a 'real world' experience too.

g.

Shifrin · 7 Dec 2006

Yeah all the best Mike, hope everything goes well! I'm slightly envious - I had a blast at uni!

Incedently my brother did his degree at the University of Lincoln (I think it had a different name back when he was there). I've walked down Beverly Road many a time 😉

Shif.

electrogear · 18 Dec 2006

Thanks guys. Beverley Road is in Hull 🙂 I used to live down there. I'm back at my folks house now though 🙁 (grumble). I got a conditional offer today anyway. I have to pass my HNC which shouldn't be a problem unless something drastic happens. I've done 6 modules so far and I have 2 Merits, 2 Distinctions, and 2 Passes..... now all I have to do is find some money. Does anyone need any jobs doing? 🙂

Cheers,

Mikey

electrogear · 8 Jan 2008

Hey guys, just an update 😀

I got my HNC and I'm doing the Degree now (I chose Music Technology & Computing). I'm loving every bit of it so far. I've done a web authoring module (see my website which I designed for my assignment: http://cafe.cic.hull.ac.uk/~341722/) which I think will come in useful for when I want to get a real site up & running.

I've also done a 'Studio Production Basics' module (hear my cover of 'Other Side Of The World: http://www.box.net/shared/iy93072ck8)

I'm really enjoying it and it's the best decision I could've made I think. I'm working on Synthmaker quite a lot recently as I don't have too much work to do over the holidays. Hopefully should have a VST worth selling sooner or later 😀

Mike