Couple of questions (ex-SE user)

malc · 1 Apr 2005

Hi tripp,

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for your comments. Very good point about VST effects. At the moment we have no external audio in components. Don't worry though they will be here very soon. Probably Direct Sound In followed shortly by ASIO In (and out).

For now you could use the example synth as an input or knock one up yourself. You could also use a wave file (the wave file component is one of our beta components so you'll have to check the box in the settings to see this).

For the timing use the Timing Info and Sample Position components. Let us know if you need help sussing them out as tehre is no documentation on them as yet.

Have fun!

Malc.

tripp · 2 Apr 2005

Thank you much for the reply. I'll look into it tonight when i'm not at work. But very excellent project you guys have here. I look forward to buying the full release =D. Thanks again.

tripp · 2 Apr 2005

Ok, since I arrived home, im a bit lost as to how these 2 modules should be used in conjunction with each other, perhaps a bit more insight would be helpful, since everything in SM is totally different then SE except a few minor tid bits.

Thanks in advance 😀

Shifrin · 2 Apr 2005

tripp wrote: Ok, since I arrived home, im a bit lost as to how these 2 modules should be used in conjunction with each other, perhaps a bit more insight would be helpful, since everything in SM is totally different then SE except a few minor tid bits.

Thanks in advance 😀

Hi, the TimingInfo module provides what you need to create tempo-based delays etc. You have to do a little maths!

Lets say you have a tempo of 137 BPM, divide this by 60 to get the beats per second. I.e. 2.283333 beats per second. Now dividing through by 2.283333 gives 1 beat every 0.4379562 seconds. So if you want a 1/4 delay you take a 1/4 of this value which would be 0.1094891 seconds. Take this value you've calculated and multiply it by the Sample Rate, i.e. 44100 or 48000 or 96000 etc. In my case I run at 44100, that is 44100 samples per second. To get the number of samples for our 1/4 delay at 44100 sample rate we multiply 44100 by 0.1094891. Which gives a delay of 4828 samples. This is what you connect to the Delay module 🙂

Please excuse any glaring errors I've just gotten up 😉

Shif.

tripp · 2 Apr 2005

Well said Shifrin. Never even thought about any of that (sucks being a noob 🙁). But thanks much for all the help, i'll see if i cant make it work now with all of this new found info 😀. I think the only thing I would have trouble with is pluggin it all up, since im not quite used to the modules yet, but thats easy to figure out with a bit of experimentation. Thanks again.

tripp · 2 Apr 2005

Ok, now im curious, would this mean the delay line would only sync up to HOST BPMs that were 137 BPM?. What if i wanted to use say....160 BPM with the same VST Effect delay, would it automatically change to the new BPM, or would I have to change the VST in SM everytime I wanted to change the BPM? And when you said Now dividing through by 2.283333 gives 1 beat every 0.4379562 seconds

. Dividing through by what? Forgive me im a bit slow, i'm just outta bed, and quite anxious to learn =D. Sorry to be such a bother.

Shifrin · 2 Apr 2005

tripp wrote: Ok, now im curious, would this mean the delay line would only sync up to HOST BPMs that were 137 BPM?.

Nope! You use the BPM and SampleRate values given by the TimeInfo module. You'd wire the BPM value up to a 'Maths : Divide' module and divide it by 60. This gives the beats per second. In my example the BPM was 137 so dividing by 60 gave us 2.28333 beats per second. We want how many seconds each beat lasts, so if we divide 2.28333 by itself and the '1' second by 2.28333 we then have the number of seconds per beat. Which worked out at 0.4379562 or something like that!

With this we can then get, for example, a 1/16 beat delay by dividing this value, 0.4379562 by 16. That would give us the number of seconds a 1/16 beat lasted at 137 beats per minute, i.e. 0.0273722! Make sense?

Finally the Delay module takes a 'number of samples' as it's input for delay length. So to get the number of samples for our 1/16 note in the example above we multiply 0.0273722 (which is the length of the delay in seconds) by our Sample Rate (which for example could be 44100). This gives 1207 samples.

I'll try to knock up an image for you if you still can't get it to work (unless Jorge or someone else beats me to it!) 🙂

Shif.

tripp · 2 Apr 2005

Let me just say, this place is fantasic. Shif, thank you ever so much for your help, if i cant get it to work now, well, perhaps i should just find a new hobby lol. I should deff be able to make it work now, if not, then perhaps i'll ask for that picture lol. Thanks again man =D

Shifrin · 2 Apr 2005

I made a mistake (of sorts...) in the two descriptions I gave above. After getting the length in seconds of a beat I said that a 1/4 delay would simply be a 1/4 of this time, a 1/16 delay would be a 1/16 of this time etc. That's not quite right (unless you're used to the way Tracktion does things...).

The length of one beat in seconds, which I got to be 0.4379562 for 137 BPM *is* the legnth of a 1/4 delay as there are four beats in a bar! So to get the 1/16 length you'd divied through by 4 (or multiply by 0.25).

Sorry for that!

Here's a little image to help :-

In this image you'll see that the BPM is 120, sample rate is 44100. The length of one beat is 0.5 seconds (which is the 1/4 delay length). I multiply this by 0.5 to get a 1/8th delay 🙂

And the schematic :-

TestDelay.osm

I hope I've got this right! Hehe, if not I'm sure Stefan/Jorge will put me right. Anyways it seems to work for me 😉

Shif.

tripp · 3 Apr 2005

Tested and approved 😀. Though I cant really test it without the DS In or ASIO In, but the math seems to work out just fine, so as soon as the rest of the modules are done, i will give it a real go. Shif, you're the man, thanks for all your help bro =D.

needle · 12 Dec 2006

I'm trying to recreate this and I can't find the TimeInfo module anywhere. I have R&D components turned on and it doesn't seem to exist.

stefan · 12 Dec 2006

needle wrote: I'm trying to recreate this and I can't find the TimeInfo module anywhere. I have R&D components turned on and it doesn't seem to exist.

It has been split up into several smaller components, look under "VST" in the toolbar.

oddson · 12 Dec 2006

An obsolete component from an earlier version.

See the WIKI or the component reference for the new timing primitives.

[old link]

(Edit - D'oh - took me too long to post!)