Next Versions features?

Tom7777 · 23 Mar 2005

Im one of those people that likes to organize everything so i hope the new release is getting more folder options like sub folders, renaming and folder placement.

stefan · 23 Mar 2005

But it can't ever be faster to click through subgroups than using the search function.... 🙂 Seriously, these kinds of things must reside somewhere near the bottom of the priority list.

Tom7777 · 23 Mar 2005

Well i actually dont use the search function much i keep everything sorted using the add folder modules so i have VCA, VCF, Custom osc ect and i have alot of small modules that completely fill up a folder which i find annoying. Adding sub folder options and forlder organization feature would allow me to sort this out completly and is actually one of the features im wanting most in the next version. And the search would stay exactly the same for everyone that likes to use that feature so i dont see why it should not be added really 🙂

stefan · 23 Mar 2005

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be useful. All I'm saying is that there are other things that probably would be way more useful atm.

What do you dislike with the search function? It is faster after all. FWIW, I have not yet added a single component/module to the toolbox. Haven't really seen the need so far 🙂

Tom7777 · 23 Mar 2005

Personally i dont find it faster as my memory is very bad and i like having organized folders to know where everything is fast.

FWIW, I have not yet added a single component/module to the toolbox. Haven't really seen the need so far

I guess we both use different workflows as im always adding my own custom modules to folders as i dont really see the point in making something twice or even multiple times when you can just put it in a folder then use it whenever it is next needed 🙂

stefan · 23 Mar 2005

I don't make stuff twice or multiple times. I use synced copies. Or are you working on like 5 synths simultaenously atm? 🙂

beno · 23 Mar 2005

I don't know if nested folders is the answer, but sometimes I can't find modules I'm looking for with the search because I can't remember the name of it, or the name at the top of the module isn't actually the module name. For example, Float to Area is title F2A at the top of the module. The first time I saw it in the documentation, I had a hard time finding it because searching for F2A (which is all I could see in the screenshot) yielded no results. I guess the best solution is to just use SM more. 🙂 Ben

Tom7777 · 23 Mar 2005

well yeah im quite random sometimes i get bored of one thing then start another then go back and work on them later. For an example of how i would find folder organization good -

I have made about 10 custom colour text modules which i want to add to a sub folder 2 directorys in -

Graphical - Text Styles - (files)

Another example is i have a few finished effects and basic synths -

Finished Projects - Effects - (Files) Finished Projects - Synths - (Files)

As well as finished projects there would be a developments folder with a similar structure, thats just 2 basic things of many so im sure you get what i mean when i say i would find it very usefull. Sure I can add folders but it would be so much easier to just add a sub folder when needed.

Shifrin · 23 Mar 2005

I can see the advantages of having things grouped into folder -> subfolder etc, but like stefan I'd put it down the priority list ATM, more important things to sort first - more modules to play with 😉

Shif.

Kitchen Sink · 23 Mar 2005

I know this is very low priority, but I want to say that nested folders is not necessarily a good idea, if it's a static grouping. I think a virtual folder structure would be better, i.e. a dynamically changing structure which is based on search criteria. Just like the filtering thing is now.

malc · 23 Mar 2005

I have some views on this, but I don't have time to post now. Just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring this and will get back to you later tonight.

Quickly though, on beno's point - I hadn't realised that the short names (the one's on top of the modules) were not recognised by the search - they really should be so that will need to be fixed. Good spot. Please don't blame your lack of experience, it's not your fault it's mine.

btw Did you know the Search recognises types and groups? So you could for example type "convert float" and the Float to Area would appear. This is because it has a Float connector and it's in the Convertors group.

beno · 23 Mar 2005

malc wrote: Quickly though, on beno's point - I hadn't realised that the short names (the one's on top of the modules) were not recognised by the search - they really should be so that will need to be fixed. Good spot. Please don't blame your lack of experience, it's not your fault it's mine.

btw Did you know the Search recognises types and groups? So you could for example type "convert float" and the Float to Area would appear. This is because it has a Float connector and it's in the Convertors group.

Thanks Malc. And great tip on using the search for types and groups. Ben

Tom7777 · 23 Mar 2005

I have some views on this, but I don't have time to post now. Just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring this and will get back to you later tonight.

Thanks 🙂

btw Did you know the Search recognises types and groups? So you could for example type "convert float" and the Float to Area would appear. This is because it has a Float connector and it's in the Convertors group.

Yeah i use search sometimes but not often though. I like using folders most though i also use folders alot for other programs and general stuff. Basically i use them all the time 🙂 I guess i use them like a search but i know where everything is that way without even having to search 🙂

malc · 24 Mar 2005

It's unlikely that we'll introduce a folder system. As Kitchen Sink points out, the system at the moment does not actually use folders. It might look that way but the Filter Groups are just saved shortcuts to searches.

For example, selecting the External group is the same as typing "External" in the Search bar.

Kitchen Sink wrote: I think a virtual folder structure would be better, i.e. a dynamically changing structure which is based on search criteria.

Spot on - that's exactly the way I was thinking. I'd always intended to return to the filter bar when it started playing more of a role. For a long time during the development process we only had two pages of components so further development on the filter bar went on hold.

In the future the toolbox may contain hundreds of components and modules. Finding the component you want quickly and easily is going to be essential. The search bar will be extremely useful, but sometimes you might want to keep the search criteria as a shortcut to use later. I'd like to have a mechanism where you can just add it to the filter bar. This way you'd get the dynamic behaviour that Kitchen Sink is refering to.

At the moment the search bar looks at types, names and groups. However, the groups are just tags or meta-data that is associated with a component. If you could add tags to your own modules then it would make finding things much, much easier.

To use your example Tom, you could add the tags "Graphical" and "Text Styles" to a module and then when you search you'll find all the modules you're after.

I'm not convinced that a nested folder approach really works. I think we're all used to it because that's the way we're forced to do it in Windows. But this requires you to worry about filing your modules and remembering where you put them.

Better to have a system where you just say "store this for me" and then make it dead easy to find it when you need it.

This is turning into a monster post and it's really getting late. But basically I think the system we have already works well and can be improved to be much better. I think you'll like it Tom, surely you don't really want to spend your time filing and organising instead of playing do you? 😉

Tom7777 · 24 Mar 2005

I guess thats a kind way of saying your definately not going to see this in the next version 🙂 which i guess will be ok but maybe you should have a scroll bar if it goes over a certain amount of folders and a rename option instead because i guess im always going to do things this way as i find it the most simple and will probably continue to do things this way.

surely you don't really want to spend your time filing and organising instead of playing do you?

I dont really think it takes that long to organize folders i think maybe i have spent around 4-5 mins total sorting everything out.

I'm not convinced that a nested folder approach really works. I think we're all used to it because that's the way we're forced to do it in Windows. But this requires you to worry about filing your modules and remembering where you put them.

True but i seem to know exactly where things are this way so i guess other people see things differently. Also it wouldn't effect the search as they would still be on the search list? so both people using the sub folder and search methods would be happy.

This is turning into a monster post and it's really getting late.

Sorry about that, please don't feel you have to stay up late to reply to me as i dont mind waiting for replys. i originally thought everyone would agree with me but it seems as if 99.9 percent don't which is a real shame. Ahh well... 🙂

Kitchen Sink · 24 Mar 2005

Actually, I hate static folder structures. Currently, I'm forced to use a folder structure for a lot of things, like all my work documents, music projects, e-mail server folders, sample library, etc.

Take the sample library, for instance. There are synthetic sounds and acoustic sounds. There are pitched sounds and unpitched sounds. Some sounds are "drum" type sounds. Not all unpitched sounds are drum sounds, and some drum sounds are pitched. Etc. I have synthetic bass sounds and acoustic bass sounds... should I make a folder Bass, and under that, Synthetic and Acoustic? Or the other way around: Synthetic sounds, and under that Bass, Keyboards, Effects, Leads?

I've ended up making a compromise with shortcuts between folders, like a "Bass / Synth bass" shortcut which points to another folder "Keyboards / Synths / Bass".

It's possible to have a virtual structure with searches, that looks just like nested folders. At each "directory" level, make a new category-split by some other search criteria than on the previous level. (this is a brilliant idea... once you figure it out)