Curse You people cracking software!!!

oddson · 4 May 2006

I recall a thread on that here where someone said ALL plugs get cracked, even low-cost ones. I guess this proves them right.

AngularMomentum · 4 May 2006

I new it was going to happen sooner or later. Certainly am powerless against these sort of things. That is why I had to blow off a bit of steam...thanks for listening...I am alright now. 😉

infuzion · 5 May 2006

Group hug for AM! Alot of ppl hate those protection keys (like Steinberg's), but I can't blame them. Yea, I read an interview with Kevin Saunderson (the godfather of Techno) that he's given up on releasing singles; too low of a margin of profit & they get bootleged faster than he can distribute them.

AngularMomentum · 5 May 2006

Thanks man!

I might have to rethink the way I am distributing those plugins...

I don't know what to say, I don't like dongles sticking out of system as well, but that does not make it right for me to steal. So the rightious thing to do would be to look for other software that hasn't, like a boycot...I make music with Cubase my whole life though, even had Steinberg pro 16 on the C64 back in the days...so I roll with it.

skOre · 5 May 2006

Hmm, my business stuff was partly developed to oppose these cracks for small devs. By selling single licenses, you make yourself a big target for single-thieves, thats just the way things go.

Shifrin · 5 May 2006

Just wanted to say I'm very sorry to hear that. It seems to me that the whole warez thing is slowly destroying the music software business. Either forcing smaller devs to quit or for them to license their software to bigger companies - like Sonitus did to Cakewalk. Whilst people hate intrusive copy protection schemes it seems that a lot of devs now see it is a necessity (even if I think it isn't) in order to try to safeguard their work.

Here's hoping that some day the warez illness disappears 😕

Shif.

tormodulator · 5 May 2006

While I'm sorry to hear that, too, I suggest you shrug them off. No protection scheme is going to stop them, and you'll end up annoying your ligit users. I think if you focus on making your paying customers happy (like having a website where you can get documentation or extras of some sort - you know some kind of service that can't be stolen), you'll benefit from it. The thieves probably wouldn't have become customers anyway, so it's better to take good care of the ones that pay.

For instance, I have gear that is very annoying, checking serial numbers against registered numbers and passwords every time I connect it to the computer, and on top of that all I ever get from them is offers to buy stuff.

On the other hand, Reason wants your serial number once, and if you register you receive free upgrades, free refills and all sorts of goodies - including quick and friendly support.

I'd rather spend money on propellerhead stuff than the other company (which I'm not going to name because I'm under an NDA and don't want to upset them if they read this 😆 ).

I'm sure both of them are cracked and warezed all over the place, but my loyalty is clearly with the friendly good guys.

Know what I mean? 🙂

GaryG · 5 May 2006

oddson wrote: I recall a thread on that here where someone said ALL plugs get cracked, even low-cost ones. I guess this proves them right.

I believe you can get cracked versions of the Computer Music freebies.

Ok, they're not exactly free (have to buy the mag) but they've no copy protection at all...

crazy.

.g

AngularMomentum · 5 May 2006

I have the same sort of thing like reason (and many other software) once you have to key in a serial, it will work for all the updates (not any more though, have to change all the serials now). I offer a lot of freeware to compensate my commercial synths, loads of audio material like rex and waveloops, even some SF2's and refills and stuff online just to please the crowd. I also give out free Chromium keys to people that send me an email saying they can't pay through the method I am offering...to make a point, overal I am not a bad person...

I do take care of my customers with extra goodies, and quick help, even quick modifications to the plugin tailored for the customer...so I can say I have satisfied customers, I never had to give someone his/her money back.

rl · 5 May 2006

Here's a mad idea. If S|M becomes a successful product, there will be a wide spread of plugins worldwide. The basic S|M engine could maintain a blacklist of cracked serialz. So if someone installes a newer version (cracked or not), the engine searches the system for plugins with known bad serial numbers and wipes them from the system.

(RL leaving the scene with diabolic laughter)

dasdeck · 5 May 2006

were ther a continupous flow of money to you from sales of your synth? has it stopped emideatly? i guess not, so dont panic, i dont think this will change your cahsflow too much. 😉 good luck, and stay dongle free, at leat with your software

D3CK

AngularMomentum · 5 May 2006

It actually did stop all sales after their release, off course I can't prove if that is because of them, or that it is just a bad month...I did get a few donations for the Chromium...but normally I sell about 10 to 20 pieces of the other plugs each month. I just have to see how I am going to be able to protect myself without hurting anybody. I am really considering making it a subscription service like suggested, pay each year a certain amount, and get all my released plugs...something like that.

infuzion · 5 May 2006

rl wrote: If S|M becomes a successful product, there will be a wide spread of plugins worldwide....

urm, there already is because of SE 😉 But it would be neat to put an hidden auto-thumbprint in the DLL so you can track what person d/l the file...

oddson · 5 May 2006

I'm too cheap to pay for your plugs.. where do I find the cracked version? 😉

I think it's a mistake to tell prospective clients they can find your stuff for free right on your web page.

If I was cheap enough and just slightly less honest I'd be included to go looking for the cracked version rather than plunk down the few dollars you're asking for. (In fact I am cheap enough and only very slightly too honest to do this.)

AngularMomentum · 5 May 2006

If you just ask you will get a license without even looking for a crack! 😉

Took the message down.

As you might know now I am a guy very much more driven by emotion then by thought and obviously I am very inexperienced and naive with these sort of things 😕

oddson · 5 May 2006

...I am very inexperienced and naive with these sort of things...

I don't have any experience with selling software...

I just don't think you want encourage the dishonest casual customer to go hunting for the free versions instead of paying a small sum.

AngularMomentum · 5 May 2006

Me neither, all of the sales is taking care of by my friend Michael who owns internetdj. Funny, after I took the message down I sold a G&P... 😉

jobro · 16 Sept 2006

Strange I didn't see this on the forum but rather on google, time for me to put down my two bits of info.

First I feel sorry to hear that you've been cracked.

There will allways be cracked software around as long as money stays around and stuff costs money. I have allmost given up on selling my stuff and add a seial key but rather add a paypal button for people to donate some money. Once they've donated I make sure to send them an updated version with more extra goodies such as new patches and an updater.

How are your business going btw nowdays?

cAPSLOCK · 16 Sept 2006

As long as the thread is ressurected, I will add my 2 cents to the pot.

I have lurked on the edges of the 'warez' community for years. I was active in it as a younger man, but have become legitimate and purchased all my software (AND MUSIC DOWNLOADS) beginning several years ago (well the music downloads part only happened a couple years ago as subscription services came around).

It might be useful to curse the software crackers, but strange as it may seem I am convinced that the warez community does as much damage to users as software authors. And it is a sort of curse.

And maybe not just in the ways people think like higher prices, and insane copy protection that only hurts the honest users, or less developers motivated and in business.

Another sublte but very serious effect is it strangles the soul out of the person who steals. They end up like Gollum in "The Lord of the Rings".

Constantly collecting, updating, visiting torrent sites or newsgroups, burning millions of CDs and DVDs, installing way too much software for their computer to stay stable.

It is my opinion that in the end, they are made impotent to use the software they steal. You will lose something in your creativity, and time from all the mindless collecting. And woe unto you if you actually want to make money using the craft that the tools you steal are made for. If you look at pirate text files you will often see something like:

"Don't make money using this software."

I see this as much as a curse as an admonition.

Everything has a price.

Software bought legally takes it's toll only on your wallet.

Software stolen extracts it's payment from the soul.

Hopefully your plugin sales have picked up again.

cAPS

electrogear · 25 Mar 2007

Hmm... just seen an illigit copy of synthmaker by Air on torrentreactor. It was probably inevitable anyway but I just thought I'd let you know. Hope it hasn't affected the sales. Sorry to put a damper on things if you didn't already know.

angstrom · 25 Mar 2007

I stumbled across this from Ernst Nathorst Böös (of Propellerheads/ Reason) recently.

"No one really knows what the software issue is all about", adds Ernst. "I can illustrate with a story. I have three children; the oldest is 16. When Napster arrived, he started downloading songs like crazy. And he got to find out about so many new bands that he never heard about, which also meant that he started buying CDs like a lunatic. Then Napster disappeared, and he stopped buying as many records as he used to, because where is his source now? There's the radio, but he's not interested in the music that's played in the radio. And MTV? No! I'm saying that I can understand what the record industry is saying, but I can also show examples of the opposite. I think it's the same thing with software piracy. It is a major problem for us, but no one actually knows the mechanisms behind it. No one knows how many of these people bought the program who wouldn't actually have been your customers otherwise."

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jan03/a ... erhead.asp

I have bought software which I had a a pirated version of. I have also not bought software which I had a pirated version of, but I did copies of that software for friends and they bought it.

IE: Logic - I downloaded it, tried it , didn't get on with it, burned it for a friend and he has had a legal version for about 4 years now. It's never black and white. It's easy to look at the 80% of people who will never pay up and say it is a disaster, but 20% of something is better than 100% of nothing much.

That's one way of looking at it anyway, for sure it's pointless to tear your hair out of piracy and paint it all black .. because firstly it does have some small upside. Secondly I still favour the Urs Heckmann approach to 6 month long melting interfaces and software fade. But that's a whole other discussion I guess.

infuzion · 26 Mar 2007

It is black & white:

Piracy is against the law.

It wouldn't be called Piracy if it was legal; it would be called a "free/open-source/gift" copy. If someone wanted to demo a song or software, then they'd give it away, or whatever. As far as I know, there are demos for Logic, Reason, etc. & Most of the people I know (in my area) tend not to buy stuff they use somewhat frequently, only if they use it alot, like for work.

--

Ernst is talking out if his behind; if his son was smart enough to use Napster, he should have been smart enough to find: http://www.live365.com/ http://shoutcast.com/ http://www.juno.co.uk/ (20seconds is more or less enough) & now we have http://MySpace.com (has anyone not heard of it?) http://pandora.com/ (it is underground, but very cool) & endless more free, perfectly legal websites, most of which artists earn some money when their song is played (via BMI, SECAM, etc) just like on FM/AM radio. Ernst is just trying to be "politically correct".

I once bootlegged software. When I gave it up, I found Acid4.0 (back when Sonic Foundry owned it) on their website for

electrogear · 26 Mar 2007

Oh dear... what've I started here? Probably one of the most common, yet unresolved debates flying around on Music Tech forums... I could start to argue my point but I can see it from both sides, and I'd only say what thousands of people have said before. Unfortunately it's just one of those things that software developers will have to live with, and those of us who can't afford to buy the software at its extorsionate prices will have to use to begin with. I'll admit that I used quite a few bits of software that I shouldn't have, but now that I'm almost at the end of my apprenticeship & have a bit of money behind me I have bought Synthmaker, Cubase SX, and a few plugins. Had I not tried the software I probably wouldn't have got into Computer Music in such a big way, but saying that there were plently of bits that I used before & never bought.

I think to solve the issue there needs to be a good balance between the price of the software and its market. For example, millions of people would buy & use Cubase 4 if it was a decent price. Sure - plently of time goes into producing the software, but the same goes for computer games, like the Sims 2 for example. The Sims 2 cost £39.99 I think, and millions of people bought it. Cubase 4 costs £499....... (or £249 for the studio version which I've heard isn't very good)..... which average joe is going to be able to afford that? The only people buying it at this price will be studio owners and very well off people. They could have such a huge market if they reduced the cost. I'd be willing to pay up to, say, £70 for it which might sound ridiculously cheap to some people, but I bet there's hundereds of thousands of people out there who feel the same way.

Programs like Synthmaker are open to a much smaller audience I guess. There's not as many people out there that would put the effort into learning it and have the general interest in building their own synths, so I think the price is quite reasonable. I paid the early adopters price, which I thought was an excellent idea, and a good affordable price for me. I probably wouldn't buy it at the price it is now though as I don't use it that much, but I would buy it at that price a few years down the line when I've got time for it & I'm not studying.

Ooops I said I wasn't going to get tied up in this debate didn't I?....... I'll be quiet now and wait for the barrage of abuse...

infuzion · 26 Mar 2007

electrogear wrote: Unfortunately it's just one of those things that software developers will have to live with, and those of us who can't afford to buy the software at its extorsionate prices will have to use to begin with....Had I not tried the software I probably wouldn't have got into Computer Music in such a big way, but saying that there were plently of bits that I used before & never bought.

I think to solve the issue there needs to be a good balance between the price of the software and its market. For example, millions of people would buy & use Cubase 4 if it was a decent price. Sure - plently of time goes into producing the software, but the same goes for computer games, like the Sims 2 for example. The Sims 2 cost £39.99 I think, and millions of people bought it. Cubase 4 costs £499.......

A few things to think about:

1) Bootlegging prevents software developers from their craft. I won't make a Point-of-sale system since it has a somewhat smaller yet crowed market, & estimating that bootlegging will take about 20% of my potential licenses, I can't afford to develop it. If people were 100% honest, I'm sure I can make a living off of it; bootlegging takes me under the breaking point right now.

I read an interview of Keven "Reece" Saunderson a few years ago that he slowed down releasing his tracks to focus on DJing out, simply because his songs ended up bootlegged before the stores can even stock them propperly (this was just before Beatport)!

2) High prices Caused by a combo of the tools for professional use & there being a smaller market. example: If you're an amature weekend woodworker, you'll buy a cheap saw. If you do it full time, for a living, you'll buy a professional saw that is easier to use & will withstand time. But if you go and steal a saw from a store or a construction site, you are a thief. No if ands or buts. (People somehow have a mental disconnect since software is non-physical)

If you are an amature computer musician, buy a single issue of Computer Music (UK) for

electrogear · 26 Mar 2007

Yeah I can see where you're coming from - use amateur software if you're an amateur. I'd agree with that. However, I think that Cubase could probably increase their sales 10 fold if they brought the price down to 1/5th of what they're asking, hence doubling their profits... maybe I'm wrong?

infuzion · 26 Mar 2007

electrogear wrote: However, I think that Cubase could probably increase their sales 10 fold if they brought the price down to 1/5th of what they're asking, hence doubling their profits... maybe I'm wrong?

Maybe... marketing (& setting the price is part of marketing to me) is kinda weird. If you don't charge alot for something, people tend to think it is cheap & not worth while. Seems the general public expensive equates with high quality. Sometimes this is true, but I keep thinking about advice I found in Electronic Musician (a US mag) a few years ago:

You can find 90% of what you need for 50% of the price.

Also, some programs I find expensive (like NATIVE INSTRUMENTS: Komplete), you can find at deeeepp discount from them directly, at store-sales (Gutair Center has crazy sales sometimes), or on eBay if you are patient enough.

edit: I do wish that some software makers would make a light version that cost only

matti · 26 Mar 2007

electrogear wrote: Yeah I can see where you're coming from - use amateur software if you're an amateur. I'd agree with that. However, I think that Cubase could probably increase their sales 10 fold if they brought the price down to 1/5th of what they're asking, hence doubling their profits... maybe I'm wrong?

It's hard to tell how things would go, but i bet that is true. Although, people with a lot of money won't care if the software costs 1000e. And they are happy(or stupid enought) to pay extra 100-200e for every 0.1 update.

I've read the specs of Cubase Studio 4 and it seems to have everything needed. Nothing important left out. I guess only major difference to the full version is surround mixing which is not in the Studio version. I think the Studio version is Steinbergs vision of just the thing you are talking about.. selling a fully featured fabulous sequencer for a very reasonable price. I prob have to update to that soon too 🙂 .... unless Ubuntu Studio proves to be as good as i hope.

electrogear · 26 Mar 2007

selling a fully featured fabulous sequencer for a very reasonable price.

To me the price for the Studio version still isn't reasonable - I have a home Studio & I would like to get a bit more up to date with my music making (from SX), but £250 is still too much for me to splash out for a CD-Rom. If I had a commercial studio then yes, you're right I'd probably be well off enough to get a copy. If Steinberg did bring the price down, then I would buy it now. There must be so many other people in my situation, and I bet half of those are using cracked software rather than a cheaper (older) version like me.

I've been told that the Studio 4 is hardly different from SX3 at all, apart from the VST3 support. Most of the decent features (or the ones that sound useable) are not available in the Studio version, (new tempo editor, channel EQ, Studio Connections, Surround sound, MIDI device editors, Control Room, Media bay etc) ... most of the other "features" that are included in the Studio edition sound a little bit... well... boring 😕

"Unlimited Audio & MIDI tracks" - woohoo! I'm always running out (NOT!) "Unlimited Virtual Instruments" - same again... "Audiowarp realtime stretching & pitch shifting" - Not particularly new & isn't it already in SX 3? "Play order track" - what? "Proffesional score layout & printing" - If I wanted a decent score writer I'd buy Sibelius "Extended VST mixer" - Hmmmmmm extended? I've seen the one in SX3 and it already takes up 3 pages! ... the list goes on.....

... so to be honest the "studio edition" they're offering sounds to me like SX 3 with a couple of modifications (and I imagine different graphics to try & exonerate the £250 price tag). I probably deserve a abit of a telling off now for not getting my facts right or something or not having my own copy. Fire away.....

infuzion · 26 Mar 2007

Good point, I'm not too excited about Steinberg's pricing. I know they make quality stuff, but then again there are plenty of sequencers under

exonerate · 26 Mar 2007

(and I imagine different graphics to try & exonerate the £250 price tag).

hey don't drag me into this! 😉 😈 it not my fault!

oh and by the way using the word 'exonerate' in that sentence makes no sense 😉 exonerate means to 'let off' or to be 'cleared' of something, just pointing that out. 😈

electrogear · 27 Mar 2007

Alright clever clogs..... that's kind of what I wanted it to mean (like excuse or justify) but yeah I see it doesn't really work. It's this British Summertime thing......

matti · 27 Mar 2007

electrogear wrote: To me the price for the Studio version still isn't reasonable - I have a home Studio & I would like to get a bit more up to date with my music making (from SX), but £250 is still too much for me to splash out for a CD-Rom.

Yeah, i understand what you mean. It might still be a bit too much for hobbyists and there are a lot of good alternatives out there. I'm just saying that it's a lot better price for a full sequencer system than couple of years ago. And you got to remember that it's alot of cool features even tho they are not that new ones.

Some nice features that i liked about Cubase Studio 4 is the Yamaha Motif sampleset and drag'n'drop effect handling(very handy.. i love the feature on Renoise). If you have SX3 you might not need the new features(and you already have the old ones), but then if you do have the SX3 updating doesn't cost you 250£. For example Studio 4 Update from SL3 is 65£. Ofcourse if updating from SX3 to Studio4 would cost 250£, i wouldn't recommend it.

Ah.. enough of Cubase 🙂 Good alternatives for Windows are Renoise(highly recommended!), the new excellent Sonar Studio, EnergyXT(like you mentioned before), FL Studio. And dear i say Reason, Ableton Live... although they are a bit more expensive nowdays. For Linux: LMMS, Rosegarden, Muse, Studio-To-Go(a whole OS), 64Studio(64 bit OS) Im now test driving the 64studio myself...

Josh · 9 Nov 2007

Funny how, when it comes to money, even the the sternest proclaimer of ethics and morality finds himself tempted towards corruption. A man of honour is hard to find indeed!

I guess its true what they say: If you want a friend in buisness then get youself a dog lol 😉

angstrom · 9 Nov 2007

This issue is related to that of music piracy - so I think a link to one of my most read blogs is in order here

http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/11/0 ... music-biz/

... What really threw the music industry people was not that these girls were downloading music ‘illegally’ — but that it was of so little value to them, that once they tired of a song, it was entirely removed from their digital media and their lives....

it made me realise that I am in a very different industry than the one I thought I was in. We really aren't in Kansas any more Toto.

I was particularly interested in the fact that they seemed to believe that fame was the endgame of the music industry. By listening to music, they reasoned, they were helping someone get famous. Famous is better than money — and besides, you can get money easily if you’re famous anyway. Downloading music was an analagous activity to voting for Big Brother contestants.

it's easy to dismiss these ideas, but the realities of modern life are such that these are becoming the norms.

It's worth reading that blog anyway, he has many good articles up there.

infuzion · 10 Nov 2007

Good find angstrom! Yea, don't want to sound like an old man, but kids' reality these days is that there is none except there is none but the reality one choses for that day & situation. Kinda like far-east religions, but actually lived out to the fullest. So downloading eg stealing is no consequence to them, since their reality disconnect doesn't allow them to think that there is a real person who put forth real work to create the art that they stole.

infuzion · 10 Nov 2007

Just remembered what a good friend said: "Why does the music industry seem amazed & angry at kids stealing their music? For years the industry were selling songs to "Fight the power", "don't listen to what they say", to rebel against authority... now the kids are actually doing why the music has been telling the to do for years & the industry is pissed off about it?"

sunsynth · 10 Nov 2007

I'm now in the same situation with my daughter...

But i'm an oldie and i remember my teenie days when i give all my money for vinyls...

Then sony/phillips made the 1st CD's (my 1st CD-Player costs > 1200 DM) and many CD's came directly from Japan (69DM)...

I hoped 4 us that the musicindustry pull down their prices 4 these round plastik media... No changes are made... only added handy-tones, +DVD etc....

If they sell a CD for about 5€ then i think nobody will use pirated songs downloads... And we don't have 2 pay 80€ for a live-concert-ticket with 20000 listeners where you see the singer so big like an ant 🙂

Walter

Acrobat · 10 Nov 2007

angstrom wrote: It's worth reading that blog anyway, he has many good articles up there.

Yes, Ang, very interesting. It's true, for example, that young people trade things a lot and very often (so also digital albums from ipod 2 ipod) but when you grow older you usually prefer to accumulate because you give more credit to gained experience instead of direct experience. I used to buy a lot of CD from 16 to 24-25 y.o. and exchange with friends, make tape recordings of them before letting them off or sell. but then I stopped and from 25 26 I start to catalogue them instead of buying...now I'm 34 I don't buy CDs almost at all, just because you can preview and listen to them on the internet....at those time instead, you were in the shop and had this terrible doubt of wasting your money, now we are sort of liberated from it... because a FAST preview it's sometimes not sufficient to understand the value of a record. You probably need a full play or 2-3 full plays at least to judge properly an album. Who can offer 2,5 hours o preview? None. Anyway I don't think, like the interviewer, that there's a NEW WAVE or anything similar, that's just a thought of realization of being a bit out tune from youngsters life but it's just US getting older, not them going anywhere further in the future, they're getting older too, the arrow has the same direction for both... it's a typical impression when you gave up something and then you go back to it, you have to digest the impact and then you are perfectly in tune with the times and arguments. 🙂

angstrom · 10 Nov 2007

I don't think his general philosophy is about 'kids' and their attitude, although that specific article is interesting.

His argument is that, whatever the legalities music/digital content cannot be managed as if the product was scarce. The historic economic ring-fence which meant you could charge money was the principle of scarcity. EG : There are only 200 of these specific items and while demand is high, also no-one else can make them ... we set the price high

In the modern digital intangible world where the scarcity principle is removed this ring-fencing argument doesn't work. There can be as many of the product as you want with the click of a button. The product isn't scarce and so the 'copy' (legal or otherwise) isn't valuable.

He isn't advocating piracy or saying "hey look the kids are aliens", but he is indicating that the content industries are seriously out of step with reality if they consider the transition to an intangible product as being akin to the transition from vinyl to CD.

The values is purely in the purchasers mind, the purchaser assigns value. We can dream that DRM and legal acts of punishment will reign in illegal copying but this is unlikely to happen based on how easy it is to copy products now.

If I make myself up a house, a camper van, or a Ferrari just by saying "shazam" they I would. If everyone could do this, then they would do it. Just imagine the lengths that Ferrari would have to go to to punish the 80,000,000 illegal ferraris. In Africa, In Asia. The ones abandoned in fields. The legal cost would be enormous, the sales of genuine physical Ferraris meanwhile would be minimal

The 'copy' Ferraris would have no worth though for the users , people would create one merely to go to the shops and then leave it there.

So, Everyone can copy digital product already, "Shazam". It is a big change in how we should perceive product.

Playing whack a mole with warez people is just a waste of effort. The best use of our time is looking at new models of capitalisation.

Acrobat · 10 Nov 2007

angstrom wrote: So, Everyone can copy digital product already, "Shazam". It is a big change in how we should perceive product.

Playing whack a mole with warez people is just a waste of effort. The best use of our time is looking at new models of capitalisation.

Defntly. the problem is how to charge properly for use. The fact is lots of people are completely wasting their time on computers, they actually don't produce anything, just click around, local or on the net. What I'd like to see is a system that's able to track the time spent on, say, a plugin to get the REAL usage and charge money just on that or, i.e., based on renderings in host. The problem is that it could be against privacy rights. But most of the times I think people is abusing this right just to do what they please. It's coming up as just as an alibi.

EXAMPLE: As told by U-He guy on KVR, Zebra went poof for a while due to a defective crack, last year. U-He sales went UP very fast, then went down again when the "crack was fixed" (that's a real oxymoron, isn't it?).

ARKZERO · 11 Nov 2007

are you all aware that Synthmaker its self has been cracked and is available on certain undernet sites all versions including the new updates!

the cracked versions appeared the very day the software updated are released 😠

i don`t understand why the release groups that crack and supply software, do that they do!

the explanation that they all give usually follows this format.........

{we do not sell our wares nor do we supply them to third party group or sites we do not advocate the supply of our releases throgh p2p networks all our releases are done using fully paid for and licensed software and are done purely for educational and testing purposes}

i can say that at least part of this statement is a lie as they do supply the cracked softwares to the p2p/torrent sites!

The groups crack the software then place it on what is known as "a scene dump site" it is then (by arrangement with people known as scamps) taken from these secret dump sites and is transfered to others (the uploaders) who work for the individual p2p/torrent sites and using what they call a seedbox(a rented space on a server with a 100mb secure connection usually in an east european country)they upload the file to others using the torrent protocol and hey presto its available to every moron with a computer! sometimes all within a few minutes of the software being made available by its vendor.The crack teams/release groups even like to boast of the speed that they do all of this by giving a pretime in the info file that comes with the cracked release

the pretime for Synthmaker 1.08b was 3min 15sec after release 😠

This situation will never go away and can only get worse still with the advent of hacker packs and keygen makers allowing even novice users to crack software themselves! 🙁

i do believe that p2p has its merits though,i myself use a legal torrent site to distribute my own music and to collab with other musicians and another belief that i have is nothing is uncrackable not even the mighty Steinbergh could stop the crack teams with their Syncrosoft driven hardware dongle protection even if it did take the cracker concerned some 400+ hours to do it. so alas that is the way it is and not a whole lot that people can do about it

regards

Acrobat · 11 Nov 2007

Sorry, Arkzero, but a "Hackerpack" for neofits sounds a bit unreal to my ears since programming is not just a matter of drag'n'drops and cool icons...

exonerate · 11 Nov 2007

Definition of a cracker: Someone who pays for software and then releases it on a P2P network.

Hmm...why?

I think only a minor percentage of crackers actually have any kind of programming/software skills. The majority probably do fit the definition above....

I mean why would someone with advanced programming skills only reverse engineer and crack software? you only reverse engineer things when you don't have the relevant skills to create.

And regarding synthmaker being 'released' 3min 15 sec after its official release, well this would only be possible if the cracker group had already bought the software, as the demo version would not have been available at the time, because it takes awhile for download.com to update there site, which would certainly be longer than 3mins 15 sec.

And it's also very funny how crackers claim they have cracked software with no copy protection such as SM, I mean i used to think that crackers must go to a lot of effort to crack software and that it maybe required some serious programming skills, but now i realize that all most of these guys do is pay for the software and then claim to have cracked it!...sad bastards 🙁

Oh and keygens are also very easy to make when you have a genuine serial number.

I also read a thread over at KVR about cracker groups releasing freeware ..LOL 😀

Seriously these 'crackers' need to get a life.

cheers 😉

Exo

angstrom · 12 Nov 2007

yes, the cracker scene - the people who crack and the people who download terrabytes of software that they will never use - is a weird niche of human behaviour.

That part of hunting, cracking and distributing appeals back to the primitive "hunter" male urges. 'bringing home the bacon' is a drive of mankind , to hunt, to achieve status by bringing back a kill. This cracking is just a modern expression of that in a new virtual terrain. Thrills and kills. Desmond Morris writes a lot about this.

These 'crack-whores' who do not actually care apps which pass through their harddrive, are actually not that important! Yes, bear with me.

I think that true end users, so for SM that would be "people who actually want to make instruments and effects" have an internal logical system which determines whether they will pay or steal.

That system is based on how connected they feel to the creator. Is the creator recognized as an actual real human, or is it thought of as a Monolithic Company based in the Cayman islands with no connection to the user.

Examine how you feel about buying vegetables from a street market stall, run by a guy called Paul who has a dog called 'woofy' . Compare that experience against buying vegetables from "Intercorp MegaMart" at checkout number 75

now, what happens when one of those companies give you too much change. Which one would you give it back to ? Paul and Woofy, or Intercorp Megamart?

when companies, or bands make themselves appear human to the end user that end user begins to relate as human-to-human and therefore in a fair and honest way. If the company or band appears as remote and objectified then the transaction is considered human-to-object.

So I would never use a ripped copy of Zebra2 for example, but I might fell less bad about a ripped off copy of Native Instruments B3 . I have seen Urs post on a few forums and I recognize him as human, NI appear as a monolithic slab.

aliasant · 12 Nov 2007

Nice one Nixon!

But I have to admit that Im am that "hunter" but not the gatherer.

I love to try out plugs and apps just to test the GUI and check for other good ideas. I dont make any money using them. I dont make any music that I sell. I also have a lot of Audio apps installed. For the same reason. To test so that my SM builds really work.

Do I have to buy a copy of every app and plug out there to do this? I could never ever afford that. Could you?

If I find an application that I like and use ( like SM) I buy it.

Maybe I should use demos instead of "other copies" off the software but demos are often time limited or limited in some other way which makes it impossible to use for testing.

I too have plans to release plugins very soon and I hope they wont get cracked to soon.... I guess Im in 2 boats at the same time.

My hope is that the serious users will actually buy the plugs. That way they will get the updates and other extras fast. Or am I naive?

Acrobat · 12 Nov 2007

aliasant wrote: To test so that my SM builds really work.

Do you have Tobybear's Minihost? It's nice to test plugs, ours and third-parties, and it's free! 🙂

aliasant · 12 Nov 2007

Tobybears minihost...

never heard of it. Edit: Downloaded it and will try it. Seems to be good for many things but it isnt the solution I want. But still very good to make quick tests. Thanx again Acrobat.

If I test a plug or synth in it... would that guarantee that it works in Sonar. or Cubase, or Ableton, or any of the others? Like writing and reading automation for example?

😉

Acrobat · 12 Nov 2007

aliasant wrote: Tobybears minihost...

never heard of it. Edit: Downloaded it and will try it. Seems to be good for many things but it isnt the solution I want. But still very good to make quick tests. Thanx again Acrobat.

If I test a plug or synth in it... would that guarantee that it works in Sonar. or Cubase, or Ableton, or any of the others? Like writing and reading automation for example?

😉

It would be a really good work to build a thread: "Experiences in Hosts".. 😉

Tom7777 · 13 Nov 2007

Do you have Tobybear's Minihost? It's nice to test plugs, ours and third-parties, and it's free!

Cantabile Lite is another good one to quickly test stuff, i notice the clicking/cpu spikes bug is still there though but hopefully that will get fixed sometime and its also possibly the hosts code and not SMs so maybe next update or something.

Osseous · 14 Apr 2008

the OHM Force plugins do something similar to Propellerheads. You cna only register on their site if you have a proper serial number. They give updates to plugins, a couple of free ones if i recall rightly and access to manuals, customer support services and customer only forums.

Then again, if you make a plugin which is stable and has no problems, then the customer support issues might not make any difference and you can probably still get all of the manuals and free plugins in cracked form anyway. Having access to the forums might not really make much odds either.

Every piece of software that can be cracked will be cracked at some point and become readily available to the masses for the price of an internet connection.

Making good plugins that are very useful/different and are the kind of thing that make people want to pay for them is probably the only way to guarantee some sort of income. Or like you said, sign yourself up with a larger company to produce plugins for them. Your distribution will probably increase a lot and although you won't get every penny or cent for the ones you do sell, at least you should be getting more than before.

Oss

electrogear · 17 Apr 2008

aliasant wrote: Nice one Nixon!

But I have to admit that Im am that "hunter" but not the gatherer.

I love to try out plugs and apps just to test the GUI and check for other good ideas. I dont make any money using them. I dont make any music that I sell. I also have a lot of Audio apps installed. For the same reason. To test so that my SM builds really work.

Do I have to buy a copy of every app and plug out there to do this? I could never ever afford that. Could you?

If I find an application that I like and use ( like SM) I buy it.

Maybe I should use demos instead of "other copies" off the software but demos are often time limited or limited in some other way which makes it impossible to use for testing.

I too have plans to release plugins very soon and I hope they wont get cracked to soon.... I guess Im in 2 boats at the same time.

My hope is that the serious users will actually buy the plugs. That way they will get the updates and other extras fast. Or am I naive?

If your software gets cracked, then likelihood is 90% of people will have the cracked version rather than paying for it, but a good portion of those people are... I guess... crack whores, and they probably own hundreds of illegal plugs that they don't even know how to use - they just have them because they're free, they would never pay for them anyway.

Also, if your software gets cracked, that means it must be worth cracking, and people start talking about it. That might even boost your sales. If nothing else at least its a confidence boost that someone has gone to the trouble of putting it out there.... even if you do want to tear their heads off and piss down their neck for doing it....

🙂

chironex · 19 Apr 2008

Worth cracking, eh? You'd be surprised how many crappy