From SE To SM

malc · 16 Mar 2005

Hi Tom7777,

Welcome to SynthMaker! 😀

I don't really know Synthedit that well but I'd be surprised if we had many components in common. I'm sure that many of the same things can be achieved with SynthMaker though.

Also, not being familiar with how Synthedit works, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by voltage and Khz. In SynthMaker we have Poly and Mono data that runs at sampling rate. We also have triggered floating point data that maintains a value unless some action changes it.

Not sure if this answers your question. I see you have another post with some questions so I'll try and deal with that now.

Malc.

Tom7777 · 17 Mar 2005

hi, thanks for your replys. What i mean is in synthedit you have modules like you do in SM. The fixed values module is an input to set the pitch of an OSC ect you can input the value you want in the modules options. This value is static like a slider not moving and is measured in volts. Synthedit also has convertion modules like SM uses and volt values can be converted to other measurements. If a Volts or Khz, HZ were added to SM then i could emulate my best Synthedit synths in Synthmaker. Thats the main reason why i ask

jorge · 17 Mar 2005

Hi Tom7777

Would you know the formula for converting volts to 0to1 ? I find the use of volts a bit strange but I guess it would correspond to pitch. what's the range with Volts?

Pitch works like Midi note numbers, so for example Midi note 64 has Pitch=64 . While midi notes are Integers, pitch works with floats so you can have for example Pitch=64.012... To convert Pitch to Frequency, you can use the P2F component. But remember that frequency in SM works from 0 to 1 with 1 meaning half sampling rate or 22050Hz for 44100Hz sampling rate.

If you can explain a bit about volts, like which range it uses and if it means pitch, I'll be able to create a schematic with modules to do the conversions you need.

Tom7777 · 17 Mar 2005

On the Synthedit sliders you usually have 1 - 10 volts with 10 being the higher pitch. Thats the default but they can be much higher or lower if chosen. Its very hard for me to explain really and i dont know too much about the tech side of things but i think its 1V to 1 Octave which might be easier to work out. Im guessing that the SE creator has researched into voltage amounts and knows the mathmatic calculations very well. Im guessing theres info about on the web with convertion formulas available also. I will have a look about on the web for some resources and post the links if i find them. I guess a good way you could see how the Synthedit app works would be to download a free copy from the website and then you will understand much more than i could possible describe. Sorry if talking about other apps is not allowed here. Oh and also in SE there is volts to floats and floats to volts conversion modules.

jorge · 17 Mar 2005

Tom7777 wrote: I guess a good way you could see how the Synthedit app works would be to download a free copy from the website and then you will understand much more than i could possible describe. Sorry if talking about other apps is not allowed here. Oh and also in SE there is volts to floats and floats to volts conversion modules.

It's no problem to talk about other apps, we dont mind although we're deliberately keeping away from SE as it could be very limiting for SM if we knew much about SE. So I dont think we'll be loading and trying SE. Even other apps like Reaktor and Max/MSP we're also deliberately keeping away from, we have a very clear idea of where we want to get with SM, it's just a question of doing it. If we went looking at the way other applications work, it could influence us to not find new inovative ways of doing things. For example, when I implemented the 1 sample at a time sound engine, I didnt know other applications werent able to do it so I didnt know any reason why it wouldnt be possible. If I had first looked at other apps, I'd probably have done a block processing engine.

I think we'll be able to provide you with general conversion modules, the best would be if you'd learn how they work and how to create them. We'll help you understand it all.

Tom7777 · 17 Mar 2005

hi i found a few pages that have might be of interest in working out various convertion mathmatics.

I hope some of these are of interest.

Tom7777 · 17 Mar 2005

jorge that sounds like a good way to go about making Synthmaker and a totally original program will evolve but you should include basic functions. The more modules you include the better i think as it gives everyone loads of options when building synths.

stefan · 17 Mar 2005

Honestly I think that the best way to start using SM is to try to forget how you work within SE (or max/msp, or reaktor, etc). Otherwise it'd be a bit like trying to code c++ in an assembler way, or try to paint with brushes in the same way you paint by air spraying. And so forth 🙂

SM does not have voltage or frequency connectors. But basicly the pitch output from the midi2poly converter is kind of like the voltage, and the frequency output is kind of like the khz values in SE. The ranges are not similar though.

Shifrin · 17 Mar 2005

stefancrs wrote: Honestly I think that the best way to start using SM is to try to forget how you work within SE (or max/msp, or reaktor, etc).

Yeah, I'd hate to see SM turn into SE. If I wanted to work with Volts, kHz etc and have play/stop buttons etc I'd use SynthEdit 😉

Although I do understand a lot of people might migrate from SE to SM and have preconceived ideas about how SM should work based on their experience of SE!

Shif.

Tom7777 · 18 Mar 2005

Hi, i am planning to switch synth making apps from Synthedit.

Sorry to disagree with you but that was mostly a suggestion to make SM better i know SE already has those but i also think it would improve SM alot because of the new possibilitys you would then have such as building from schematics that refer to volts a khz. Not only that but i could also then make all my older SE synths into SM ones. I didn't mean change the system it uses just have both Volts and KHZ and inputs and even other types of inputs as the more modules the better.

Tom7777 · 18 Mar 2005

Yeah, I'd hate to see SM turn into SE.

I don't really think that could possibly turn into SE by adding Volts, kHz etc and have play/stop buttons because if that was true then you could say it already is due to the fact it has filters, oscs and math modules already which programs like Reaktor and SE have already.

stefan · 18 Mar 2005

What difference would volts/khz do? The pitch values are in the same kind of scale as they are when using 1V/oct, so that ought to work good enough for you. The frequency connector has the same linearity as the khz connectors in SE.

What is it that doesn't work atm?

Tom7777 · 18 Mar 2005

Ok thanks thats what i needed to know. I still think it would be good because i like to make schematics synths and effects exactly how they are documented. And If there was a document or something saying SM Values then the exact values that would be just as good but i havent found much info yet. Thanks 🙂

malc · 18 Mar 2005

I completely understand the frustration that lack of documentation may be causing. Don't worry though, we've already made a start on this.

Tom7777 · 18 Mar 2005

Thanks malc for this and thanks for the great Synthmaker app 🙂

Shifrin · 18 Mar 2005

Tom7777 wrote: I don't really think that could possibly turn into SE by adding Volts, kHz etc and have play/stop buttons because if that was true then you could say it already is due to the fact it has filters, oscs and math modules already which programs like Reaktor and SE have already.

Yeah I know what you're saying, bit of an extreme example 😉 I guess it's just as I love the way SM works. You can always write simple little converter modules to give you Volts/kHz 🙂

Shif.

Tom7777 · 18 Mar 2005

Hi, Yeah converters would be cool but i have no idea how to make one 🙁 Wish i could do all the tech coding type stuff to make one.