From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
SBMastering ·
I've been using Synthmaker for about a week now.
The problem is, I can't live without the slider returning to default with a double click. Even Synthmaker's own zoom slider returns to default with a double click.
I found this post about a knob that has this functionality -- Doubleclick knob/button to reset to default position..
I spent today trying to get a slider to do what that knob is doing.
I can tell you that in the default slider module, it is in the area of Horizontal Slider->Slider->Interaction->Slider->Moving Part->H Slider Control. The H Slider Control module itself is different than the knob example and the "Set" and "Default" modules within the H Slider Control module are different as well.
After monkeying with this for hour after hour, I did get the slider to go to default when double clicking, but the slider ceased functioning also! 🙁
IMPORTANT: In the link above, when they got the knob to work with the double click return to default, there was a problem! Right click functionality stopped until the slider was moved again. Check out the link above to see what they said. I want to avoid that problem when doing this slider.
Is this actually complicated or should I be able to do something like this after a week of using Synthmaker? Whatever the case may be, I would really like to know the best methods for learning Synthmaker. I wish a guru would take me under their wing.
philter5 ·
we DO have some really nice gurus here, especially our allround talent trogluditte is a perfect wingman to fly with thru the sm world. the thing you want to do is not a big deal and i am 100 % sure that is is not "too complicated" for you. but when using Synthmaker for the first time it CAN be confusing to start WITHOUT reading the manual first. that´s boring but will make a lot of things clearer. can´t help you more atm, but for sure somebody will.
welcome to SM
phil
SBMastering ·
Great suggestion. RTFM is always good advice and you're absolutely right -- I have not read it thoroughly. I'm going to get on that as carefully as I can, starting immediately.
In the meantime, I do hope someone will help me with the slider issue. It's nice to have a project going as I am learning. I'm doing something simple but that I know will be used every day in my regular work.
SBMastering ·
I actually just read the entire user manual just now, from start to finish. It was no where near as bad as I thought it would be. I learned alot, and it's certainly the kind of thing that I would have to read several times in order to get the full impact.
When I first looked at it, I was totally confused. Now that I've been working on something and have a better grasp of the program, the manual made much more sense.
The part on the GUI may help me some with the slider return to default, but even having read the manual, it still will be a bit fuzzy. There are many components I saw today that are not mentioned in the User Manual at all.
I understand that I can hover and find out more about what a component does, but I still need more information to really get a better understanding of Synthmaker and how to do things with it. I need something that really ties things together. I probably need exercises that will teach me. How did the gurus learn? How would the gurus learn differently if they could learn all over again from scratch? How can I find the best path for learning?
Also, of course, can anyone help me make the slider that will go back to the default when double clicked, so that I can keep my current project on track while I continue learning?
philter5 ·
yes reading manuals is always some kind of boring. and a osm/picture/explanation to learn from is the best point to start/learn it.the stock manual covers the "basics" only, so you will really fast reach a point where manual won´t help much.
the modules that are explained are only the standard ones that come with SM. you will quickly learn how to make your own modules if you just know A FEW special thngs about SM. not the whole manual is usefull at beginning but these special tricks how to handle SM may prevent you from a lot of question& answernig sh*t. to the fader : i can help you later , not at my SM machine atm.
phil
Xtinct ·
Hi heres a slider
Hope it helps.
p.s. all controls return to their default settings with CTRL + Left click
trogluddite ·
SBMastering wrote: Is this actually complicated or should I be able to do something like this after a week of using Synthmaker?
I would say that it is not a trivial problem - in the post where you found your example, there are hints at why this is so.
Trouble is that SM sees mouse-down, mouse-up, double etc. as discrete events - which it kind of has to to allow us maximum flexibility.
For double clicks, this can create problems, as the individual presses and releases of the buttons get registered in addition to the double click event - cruciallly, there will always be a mouse down event that happens at the same time as the double click. You can see this if you experiment with this example (hint: try holding the button for a moment on the 'downstrokes' to see exactly when the double event is sent)...
Depending on exactly how the schematic is arranged, and what order the 'Down' and 'Double' are connected to the Mouse Area, this can lead to contradictory messages clashing with each other inside the control - and hence, the final effect can appear unpredictable. In fact, in Xtinct's example it took me a while to even find where he had put the double-click - it is not inside the 'interaction' modules along with the other mouse handlers - and I guess he has done it that way precisely to keep the double as separate as possible, in order to overcome these 'clashes'.
So, don't be disheartened, this is one of the trickiest bits of SM to understand - even after many years using SM, I find myself having to resort to trial-and-error to fix these kind of problems. It is not helped by the poor manual - as you have found, only the primitives (blocks that you cannot go inside) are properly documented . Many of the modules (with 'inner workings') were not even created by the SM developers, and have been collected together from the contributions of users over the years.
To learn more, I would suggest that the only way is to start small - complex modules like the knobs and sliders, have so many zillions of links and modules within modules, that I doubt even the 'old timers' here could ever completely describe how every part works. Things like the little example I posted above will teach you much more - just like any scientist, you can add or change one small thing at a time, use readouts and trigger counters to look at what's happening, and then ask here on the forum any time you get a result that you don't understand.
I also recommend reading my (sadly still incomplete) 'Trigger Tutorials' guide to how SM handles triggered data (green and yellow parts) - I think that this is the part of the official manual that is most lacking, and leads to the greatest confusion for beginners. It is far from comprehensive, but will hopefully will at least give an insight why an apparently simple bunch of connections can behave in ways that defy 'common-sense', and some ideas for what to look up when searching the forum posts.
And remember - all of us here learned the same way; from each others' examples and asking lots of 'dumb' questions. No-one is ever going to look down their noses at you for asking questions about the 'basics' - because we all had to do that when we were beginners.
Happy SM'ing! 🙂
SBMastering ·
Thank you Xtinct and Trogludite!
I tried your example Xtinct and it did work -- much appreciated. However, it was very buggy and a little unpredictable. When I resized the component window so that I could see more of the fader track, the slider stopped working completely. Also, when I double clicked the first time, there was quite a delay before I could move the slider again. Sometimes, when I drag, it would get stuck. If you mess with it for a while, overall, it doesn't work in a way I would think is fully developed. You are obviously very skilled to get it to work at all and I very much appreciate it, but I think it needs a little more development. With how complex this seems to be, as a beginner, I may not be the best person to fix it.
Also, I am looking to do a horizontal slider, although I'm thinking I could convert this one to horizontal if I worked on it for a few hours. I'm so slow with this stuff at this point...
I do think a well-made double clicking defaulting slider for Synthmaker in both horizontal and vertical would be a wonderful addition to the forum. Also, BTW I have been making sure to type in different phrasings so that it will be searchable under many different terms...
That double clicking knob example I linked to works VERY well. Knobs, sliders and buttons are the most important controls and this seems like a vital functionality -- it should be well implemented. Like I said, my beginner skills are probably not fit to design such an integral and necessary component such as this. Especially so, now that I find out this is actually a rather complex challenge.
Thanks Trogludite, I read the manual and learned a ton last night. I did a few examples with the code, although I'm disappointed that the code window only accepts audio streams. I wish I could input integers and floats in there. The thing about masks is weird. I thought I was going to have to do an "if" for my project until I found the "Selector" module. I'm going to read your thing about triggers today.
I hate to make requests and ask so many questions! I promise I will pay back by contributing to the forum and create some tools for others to use as I learn more.
Dell ·
Hi.
The most common method is to hold down the “Ctrl” key and “left click” on the desired slider with the mouse on VST-Plug-ins in order to achieve a "Flat/0 dB" position. This method also implemented on all of Synthmaker’s house knobs. I haven’t downloaded the osm’s offered by Xtinct or trogluddite however, if you are not exporting your work to VST in your DAW that may be to root of your delay.
You must export your work into your DAW to see how it actually functions in your DAW. This is mandatory when animation is taking place.
Using the “Ctrl” “left click” will only offer a delay based on your mouse settings.
Mo ·
Hi,
Here's vertical and horizontal slider with left double click for default.
trogluddite ·
SBMastering wrote: fit to design such an integral and necessary component such as this
Hold onto that idea though - and I would also recommend (to anyone) taking a slightly different angle, that has worked well for me.
The stock knobs are designed to be used when starting out in SM (as I see it) - there is a hell of a lot of stuff in there which is there purely to make them versatile while simple to use. There are a huge number of 'properties' options in them that are very rarely required, and this is partly why they are so overwhelming when you look inside.
For example, to make a knob that is fixed to a 0-1 range, with a default reset, VST preset and none of the other features at all can lead to a much smaller design - and one that is perfectly functional for most purposes. The big advantage is that, if it is one's own design, the internal workings are understood much better, so that adapting it to work differently becomes much simpler. Many times I find this quicker than modifying the toolbox controls - they are so over-engineered that it is all to easy to add bugs, and for them to be tricky to fix. It also allows designs to be optimised for the job in hand - the stock knobs, for example, have several 'quirks' which lead them to use more CPU power than necessary.
The main reason that I suggest this, is that it is possible to spend an awful lot of time learning just how the built in controls work - the way that some of the triggers flow is fiendishly hard to follow in places. For anyone intending to do any serious GUI building, that time is probably better spent learning how to build controls from the basic primitives. That way you build up your own collection of useful parts that are more comfortable to work with because they fit your own programming style and way of arranging things - a better understanding of the stock controls will naturally come from this too, as you develop an instinctive ability to recognise what the primitives are up to.
Xtinct ·
Hi my double left click to default was made because there was no documentaton about CTRL left click other than in the forum (found after I'd made it doh!) heres two more which really should be included in the tool tips
1, right click will move the slider instantly to the cursor position.
2, double right click will move the slider to its lowest value.
Dell ·
Xtinct wrote: Hi my double left click to default was made because there was no documentaton about CTRL left click other than in the forum (found after I'd made it doh!)
This is precisely why I tell new members to think outside the box and experiment when building designs. There are so many things Synthmaker is capable of doing that may not be documented in their manual.
I never read the manual and learned everything through trial and error in addition to user's requests. 🙂
trogluddite ·
Xtinct wrote: there was no documentaton about CTRL left click
There is really little excuse for this, especially in the standard toolbox parts - there are so many ways to make a module 'self-documenting' - Comments, Tooltip prim' (searchable in the toolbox), proper module and connector labelling....
This is I why I always make a point of, erm, mostly, err, sometimes, err, occasionally thinking about possibly planning to do it with my modules! 😉
SM is just programming, and every student of programming has it drilled into them - comment, comment, comment! Somehow SM's graphical style fools us that "a picture is worth a thousand words", so it is very easy to forget this fundamental rule of software engineering....
...until it's de-bugging time! 😝
SBMastering ·
The sliders done by Mo were excellent -- they worked exactly as intended!
At first!
When I modified them with my own graphics, when I click, drag and release -- the mouse cursor remains at the location where I first clicked. I made a graphic (as has been suggested for asking questions).
Check this out:
Xtinct ·
Is this a problem? 😕
SBMastering ·
It's kind of weird. You drag, then you let off and if you want to tweak it a little more you have to move over to it. It's a little annoyance. The Synthmaker slider for zooming doesn't work like that...
trogluddite ·
You can alter this using the "Mouse" input of the Drag Accumulator primitives - just replace the boolean 'true' that is usually there with an integer box, and choose one of the three modes (there's a text hint when the accumulator is highlighted - you want to disable the 'hold' setting).
Mo ·
SBMastering wrote: the mouse cursor remains at the location where I first clicked.
Yes, sometimes it is better so the cursor does not disappear off the screen, especially for smaller sliders or using low sensibility. BTW, here it is made like the stock sliders:
SBMastering ·
Thanks guys. I am getting a very fast education here.
BTW, I promise I'm not coming to you guys with everything. I am working to figure things out on my own too, which I'm doing even more as I am learning.
trogluddite ·
SBMastering wrote: BTW, I promise I'm not coming to you guys with everything. I am working to figure things out on my own too
No worries 🙂
You ask very focused questions, are clear about what advice you have or haven't understood, and are always courteous - that tells us all we need to know about the effort you are making.
I've been here a long time now, and I could tell you some real horror stories about folks who just expect stuff to be built for them - and then have a tantrum when we offer to help them learn the skills for themselves.
SBMastering ·
I want to add that Mo's most recent slider OSMs work perfectly with the double clicking action as well as the cursor position when releasing the mouse button after the drag.
Kudos, Mo. My very best regards to you and everyone else who helped in this.
This helped me understand so much!!
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