makey makey - a invetion kit for everyone

MichaelBenjamin · 6 Jun 2012

at first this looks pretty cool, but at second look you are better off buying an arduino, and do some real "making". - one trick pony that does not involve or teach programming at all, so its pretty braindead game of connect-the-cables-to-bananas and similar - fun for 15 minutes. - works only with moist and metals - to close the circuit, you have to hold / attach a wire to yourself while using it - not elegant - should not be too hard to build similar and much more adequate functions with an arduino and the serial port library

trogluddite · 6 Jun 2012

He he! 😀 For some reason I now have in my head an image of Keith Emerson going bezerk on a huge synthesiser rig that looks like the window display at a good old-fashioned greengrocers.

MichaelBenjamin wrote: fun for 15 minutes

Wooden Blocks -> Duplo -> Lego's -> Mindstorms -> FlowStone -> Raspberry Pu -> ....... Colouring Book -> Join-the-dots -> Crayons -> Oil Paints -> Photoshoo -> AutoCAD -> .......

For sure, it's a gimmick, and very little practical use - but hey, it's giving young kids the chance to use their creativity to invent new "User interfaces", and learn not to be frightened of "looking under the hood" of the technology that surrounds them. I used to work as a lab tech' in a large secondary school, and I noticed there that many of the best teachers used little "toys" like this throughout their courses. Many kids have already decided that 'science' subjects are going to be too 'hard' or 'not interesting enough' before they have even had their first lesson - those subjects just have a certain reputation around the schoolyard. Though they lack the 'hard science', toys like these are great for getting students to forget their pre-conceptions, so that any latent enjoyment of the subject can come to the surface. Once you've got them hooked - then it's time to break out the Arduinos!

oddson · 6 Jun 2012

MichaelBenjamin wrote: ...- to close the circuit, you have to hold / attach a wire to yourself while using it - not elegant ...

Are you sure... I assumed it sensed capacitance change.

philter5 · 6 Jun 2012

MichaelBenjamin wrote: at first this looks pretty cool, but at second look you are better off buying an arduino, and do some real "making". - one trick pony that does not involve or teach programming at all, so its pretty braindead game of connect-the-cables-to-bananas and similar - fun for 15 minutes. - works only with moist and metals - to close the circuit, you have to hold / attach a wire to yourself while using it - not elegant - should not be too hard to build similar and much more adequate functions with an arduino and the serial port library

yeah i know, i am not going to buy this one but it instantly gave me new inspiration, so i cut a old headphone cable off, plugged it into my laptop, and the LEFT and RIGHT end of the other (cut) side attached to coins . then i made a simple app to send midi program changes LEFT=prev &RIGHT= next). i love such geeky toys hehe! but money is too rare for me so i am going to build my own 😀

but it would be so nice if we just could send keystrokes from sm. does somebody know if it is possible in FS 😈 ?

MichaelBenjamin · 6 Jun 2012

oddson wrote: Are you sure... I assumed it sensed capacitance change.

its there: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joy ... r-everyone

its not an inventors kit. its a toy with a to the core concept useless and even contradictionary nintendo controller layout printing (causing pavlovesque seizures amongst some people) that plays nicely on the bananaphone-look-how-cool-this-is reflex. while thats not bad per se, the description as invention kit is really overboard and not descriptive at all. in fact these guys are inventors that took arduino circuitry and made that pony out of it. if you call that an inventors kit you can also call a doll an inventors kit because children invent stories with it.

" Wooden Blocks -> Duplo -> Lego's -> Mindstorms -> FlowStone -> Raspberry Pu -> ....... Colouring Book -> Join-the-dots -> Crayons -> Oil Paints -> Photoshoo -> AutoCAD -> ..... "

i agree with your arguing about the potential of makey to act as a kind of catalysator to people so that they actually start looking for real inventor kits, but if you want to put makey somewhere into that list above, it wouldnt fit. and i cant make much sense out of the second line.. you go from coloring book over oil paint to autocad, your point here was?

usb-rocketlauncher <> led-cube <> c-64-in-a-joystick <> that korg mini synth <> google moog thing some week ago and all of these covers people made with it <> phone apps thats the appropriate list makey fits in. its the list of useless gadgets that nobody needs, that does nothing but amuse for some short time before literally getting thrown in the dumpster. you can do this and thousand more things with an arduino that costs even less. if you have children why not build that exact banana bingo on an arduino with them? and maybe on that way come up with some ideas that wont even work on that crippled zombie. only chance i am going to allow this gadget to get status "useful" is, because it could be incredibly hard to build such a low current contact system that sends keyboard / mouse data, but i doubt it.

DigitalWhiteByte · 7 Jun 2012

I'm playing with this and it looks promising http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensypp_pins.html http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/projects.html

trogluddite · 7 Jun 2012

MichaelBenjamin wrote: and i cant make much sense out of the second line.. you go from coloring book over oil paint to autocad, your point here was?

That it's not all about 'hard technological knowledge' - I know plenty of people who are a whizz with their PC skills, can learn the most complex new GUI in an instant etc. etc. In fact, that seems to be what most ICT education is these days - 'mechanically' learning what menu item lives where etc. But knowing the technical ins and outs is no guarantee that we can use technology effectively - you cannot use AutoCAD well without the more 'ephemeral' knowledge of geometry, metrics etc. Nor will the science know-how guide you to a harmonious combination of colours for the product you are designing. I feel there is far too much concentration in 'technology education' on the pure mechanics of using the GUI and the algorithms beneath that. - but rarely much consideration of the other 'transferable skills' needed to use it wisely, or even to decide when a technological solution is appropriate or not. For sure, we do need some 'uber-geeks' if we are to innovate with technology - but we don't need that many of them. What we do need much more of IMHO, is a general population who do not treat technology as if it is magic, and are fit to judge the justifications of science 'spokespeople' who are pushing technology at them - i.e. the raw basics of the scientific method and ethics of technology. e.g. "this SparkFun thing, is it an effective use of technology? - class discussion".

As for the idea of "useful" - how "useful" are the plugins we make with SM? Or mobile phones and televisions? (I have never owned, nor felt the need for, either of those things). You can't eat them, shelter under them, or f**k them, so what use are they? Just how far do we wish to take the "utilitarian" perspective?

Tzarls · 7 Jun 2012

MichaelBenjamin wrote: its there: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joy ... r-everyone

Oh my freaking......!!!!!! Almost half a million dollars?????

MichaelBenjamin · 7 Jun 2012

That it's not all about 'hard technological knowledge' sure, but as long as we go with the term "inventor", GUI learning as an isolated skill has nothing to do with it, since its very tightly encapsulated inside the [black_box] gui learning > gui knowing > gui using [/black_box], so gui learning misses the point of using technology completely.

and "hard technological knowledge", you basically mean hardskills tend towards the cavemans abilities side? i would rather use concrete/abstract as a pair here to distinguish between the different regions of knowledge, and i agree, actually doing stuff with hardmatter and being experienced in it is also a key component to find solutions for problems - but not so much anymore, since recent global and local problems have become much more abstract, so i would put the focus on that side, also with education. abstract knowlegde is also the easiest transferrable but maybe the hardest to implement. now for useful, i disagree that its useful to define useful as only shelter food and fuck, since the current situation gives the term its definition. for example as a current situation humans need to deal with so many new abstract complexities that the computer as a mindprothesis became an essential and natural part of the cavemans useful-list, as long with other important cultural inventions and principles. so "useful" may be things that solve problems whose solution offers a bunch of new interesting questions calling for new solutions and therefore keep humans from extinction. extinction in this case means being stuck in a loop with no change. that also borders on electronic music: exact numerical repetition needs to be avoided at all costs, since its completely redundant and of no value. thats the number one reason why hobbyists electric music is so awful. bla bla:()

Xtinct · 7 Jun 2012

[quote="MichaelBenjamin: exact numerical repetition needs to be avoided at all costs, since its completely redundant and of no value. thats the number one reason why hobbyists electric music is so awful. bla bla:()[/quote] I agree, thats why Kraftwerk were so rubbish 😉 😈

MichaelBenjamin · 7 Jun 2012

yes that statement is a bit like jellyfish, but kraftwerk is a perfect example for this. kraftwerk is not part of culture because they made especially well crafted music, but more for bringing the topic of computer music to a wide audience and delivering it together with a nice stylized show. the songs itself are mediocre pop songs, most of them pretty boring, not horrible though. therefore kraftwerk is regarded as good because of its myth as a cultural "first"-appearance, not for actual content quality regarding its medium.

trogluddite · 7 Jun 2012

MichaelBenjamin wrote: i disagree that its useful to define useful as only shelter food and fuck

As do I - merely taking the argument to extremes in the pursuit of a point (not sure I caught up with it!)

In fact, it seems that we really agree about much - your point about 'GUI learning' indeed is one dear to me. I work in the field of electronic 'educational' products, and it truly saddens me that subjects such as 'Control Technology', 'Design and Technology' etc. form such a small part of the UK school curriculum. I owe my career to the inspirational teaching of those subjects when I was at school, yet now they have all but disappeared, substituted with something more akin to 'Office Skills'. (Those skills have their place too of course, I am not saying that they should not be taught at all)

In fact my greater enthusiasm for 'Makey Makey' comes from a broad rather than narrow view of 'usefulness'. Mental well-being is also a massive stimulus to humanity's collective creativity - without that, it is all too easy to withdraw, and to not care (or maybe just feign not caring). As such, toys, play, music, rude jokes etc. can be thought of as very useful indeed - hence my point before that 'trivial' uses of technology can be useful, not because we learn much from them, but because they create a good 'atmosphere' in which to learn. Having said that, your earlier point about the 'Makey' being a 'closed' system is well made. I also would love to see projects like that be more 'expandable', so that the experience can more easily lead to further exploration. Maybe that is just a reflection of the gimmicky 'single-use & throw it away' culture that is prevalent in most areas of life these days - the guys that made that stuff are also in it to make some money presumably, and repeated sales of cheap 'limited-scope' products is a well proven business model!

Re: Krafwerk I think also that the repetition in their music was a conscious artistic choice. This is borne out from their lyrical style, and even product artwork. I was never quite sure whether their 'man machine' ethos was some kind of utopianism, or something more satirical, but the vein of 'humankind becoming like the machines they created' runs through much of what they did - and the form of the music does reflect that, just as constructivism did for the visual arts. That doesn't make it great art per se, just a neat choice of form form to match the sentiment - though personally I much preferred their earlier work that was a little more 'organic', and I am of that age where vocoded voices just make me think of Metal Mickey and Daleks!

Xtinct · 7 Jun 2012

MichaelBenjamin wrote: yes that statement is a bit like jellyfish, but kraftwerk is a perfect example for this. kraftwerk is not part of culture because they made especially well crafted music, but more for bringing the topic of computer music to a wide audience and delivering it together with a nice stylized show. the songs itself are mediocre pop songs, most of them pretty boring, not horrible though. therefore kraftwerk is regarded as good because of its myth as a cultural "first"-appearance, not for actual content quality regarding its medium.

This could almost be a description of the makey makey

philter5 · 7 Jun 2012

trogluddite wrote: not because we learn much from them, but because they create a good 'atmosphere' in which to learn.

you speak from my mind trog. 😍 best mind translator i´ve ever used hehe. i mean makey isn´t really that Special and inventive, but some people like me are for sure inspired , perhaps are switching from headache-overloaded-full-of-function tools to minimalistic pure designs and simple things

trogluddite · 7 Jun 2012

philter5 wrote: you speak from my mind trog.

Ah, I wondered who it was - you really shouldn't do that when I'm at work, it's so hard to concentrate when other people's 'Makey Makey' thoughts keep distracting me at random! 😉

oddson · 7 Jun 2012

DigitalWhiteByte wrote: I'm playing with this and it looks promising http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensypp_pins.html http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/projects.html

That's cool... i was going to paste a link to pjrc in this thread yesterday (as i have elsewhere on this forum).

trogluddite · 7 Jun 2012

Some fantastic project there, thanks for the link. The variety is quite stunning.

Been fiddling more with PIC microcontrollers - we make a little doo-dad called ECIO at work that is a very similar concept to the little "Teensy", except PIC based. There's also a range of other little ready made boards that interface with it - including MIDI. Not as robust or compact as a custom PCB etc, but cool for prototyping in a 'MCU Lego' kind of way. I just arranged a few days ago to loan a box of stuff on the understanding that I write up my little project to publish on the web. Too good an opportunity to waste. Probably just something simple like a little MIDI controller for starters; I'll post if anything interesting comes of it.

billv · 8 Jun 2012

Thanks for the tip on "Makey" and "Teensy" guys. Makey looks really bent. Lots of DIY talk here, so, here's my 2 cents.... A few years ago I built a Midi Controlller out of this.. http://www.halemicro.com/Products/Products.html Works great. I was lucky though-my version has a switch, that gives you an another 32 ins/outs, taking it to 64 in/out. They changed it shortly after I bought mine, and this feature was taken out. Note: They did advise in the manual that an extra capacitor may be needed to smooth things out. I didn't listen. My controls can be a little "jumpy" when first touched. Will have to re-do project one day. Hope this helps.

MyCo · 9 Jun 2012

oddson wrote: DigitalWhiteByte wrote: I'm playing with this and it looks promising http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensypp_pins.html http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/projects.html

That's cool... i was going to paste a link to pjrc in this thread yesterday (as i have elsewhere on this forum).

I don't get the point of making just another plattform for AVR... and