From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
RJHollins ·
Well GANG, ya have a 'demo' testing rookie here that is looking for a VST solution to a particular need.
I understand the 'restrictions' on the demo ... 2, I not certain that what I need doesn't already exist, and 3, if
an app like SM is appropriate.
I've done 'some' basic language programming during an earlier lifetime with GFABasic and an ATARI STe computer.
Like I said ... a galaxy far, far away. Nonetheless, I'm intrigued with the 'modular' concept of SM, as well as the
ability to handcode.
On the surface ... my immediate project need would hardly justify a full blown purchase ... however, there are 'special'
tools that have come to mind that [as a hobby] I'd like to be able to model, design, test ... and learn.
With that in mind ... I come from the land of analogue hardware, having worked some 30 years as engineer. After about
7 years in semi-retirement, I've just complete [with the help of a great designer/acoustician] a new mastering control
room. I've been testing all the new software apps, and currently working with a DAW called REAPER. On 'their' forum,
one user supplied a custom toolbar that allows one to select different ASIO outputs at the click ON a button. I then
expanded that toolbar to allow me to select 3 separate monitors [Mains, Auratones, AUX], also to include a single
MONO feed to a single monitor. NOT having to put any hardware potentiometer, or secondary converter into my
signal chain, and being able to flip through any monitor configuration is exactly what I had in many of the studios
I worked. I bought REAPER right after that.
RJHollins ·
mmm ... part 1b 🙂
ok ... but I also work with another app that is self contained, does NOT allow plugins. So here is what I did.
Purchased 'Virtual Audio Cable', and found a free app called VSTHost. With these 2 talking to each other, the final
output is through VSTHost, but within it I can patch in meters, analyzers, scopes, correlation, etc. What I can't
do [easily] is switch between monitor systems. YES, I can change the device driver, but I can't easily do MONO
collapses, or single monitor [mono] feeds.
As a 'first' little project 🙂 I'm looking at SM as a possible gateway to a working solution. If NOT ... yea ... I COULD
'virtual' into REAPER ... which would be sensible ... but since reading through a huge chunk of the forum, my brain is
getting all kinds of idea possibilities. But first ... a Multi Monitor Selector' ... that could handle a stereo input feed,
and via 'radio button' select, say, 3 stereo outputs, 2 MONO [single speaker] outs ... and heck yea ... a DIMMER button
that would knock it down -20dB [maybe user adjustable].
Am I crazy ... has somebody already got this? Could I get some GURU guidances .... what do I need to do ?!?!?
Thanks everyone for following through this ramble ... please save me from myself 🙂
RJHollins ·
ahhh ... 3rd post in a row [maybe a charm] ... BUT ...
It appears VSTHost can ONLY assign a single output 😕 Roadblock.
OK ... so maybe ... can a stand alone app be made from SM that I could 'virtual' from VSTHost in to this 'multi selector' ?
maybe this is beyond rookie abilities ... but I'd like to pursue this!
Thanks!
cyto ·
Hello and Welcome!
I'm 99.9% certain you can't control the hardware I/O from any vst. It is solely up to the host to handle that. You could make a stand-alone program in SM that has all the bells and whistles you need. The stand-alones are actually vsts that are wrapped in a minimal host and are executable. In such cases, you'll have full access to all the ASIO I/O's.
Having said that, let me make a quick recommendation. You mentioned that you have been using Virtual Audio Cable and vstHost. I recently was looking into a similar environment to do some testing (I hate having to open up a DAW just to hit a few notes on my keyboard). I happened upon the program Live Professor. It is feature-rich host that is focused on live, real-time processing. Currently it is in beta, so you can pick up a copy for free. I've been playing with it for awhile, and it seems pretty rock-solid. Check it out. (I do not work for them, just really impressed with their product)
-cyto
RJHollins ·
Hello cyto !
Thanks for the welcome ... AND the link to 'Live Professor'.
I dL'd a beta copy they have posted, along with the manual to check out ...
Since I last posted, I was looking at the idea of just hooking into REAPER via 'Virtual Audio Cable' ... and have
found ANOTHER roadblock. 😕
With REAPER set ASIO driver, the 'VAC' is NOT an option ... when I configure to get 'VAC' as an input ... I no longer
can select more than a single stereo output. 🙁
... well ... off to check out 'LP' ... see what IN/OUT options look like.
Hoped that this wasn't gonna be a complex thing to do ... my 'other' app also doesn't know 'RE-WIRE' [not that I know
or have used it either] ... but I could feed into VSTHost, but only a single stereo out via its' device manager.
Hope the GURU's are standing by 🙂
RJHollins ·
well ... THAT was quick.
Live Professor only allows me to choose ASIO driver. No Vitual Audio Cable can be selected ... so I couldn't
even get input into to it from my other app.
... help please ... 😝
trogluddite ·
Hi there, welcome to the forum.
Hmm, it seems you have rather a conundrum on your hands. I think that whatever DSP programming environment you use, you are likely to have the same problems. This is caused by some limitations in the way that most software and drivers interface...
- Most software allows only a single ASIO driver to be selected (hence using soundcard and VAC simultaneously is hard). This is basically the quickest, easiest way for the developers to avoid problems with synchronising drivers - using two devices with independent sample clocks is a recipe for disaster!
- Most ASIO drivers are only able to be used by one application at a time, unlike DirectSound that can mix audio streams from multiple clients.
There is a possible hardware solution to this - but whether it is any use will depend on what existing hardware you have (and budget!)
The trick is to use two soundcards - both of which must have digital I/O (e.g. S/PDIF) and the ability to synchronise their word clocks via the digital input. So, your mastering application would send a stereo feed out of the digital connector of soundcard A - cabled directly into the digital input of soundcard B (with soundcard B synchronised to this input). Your monitor selector (could be an SM .exe standalone) then accesses everything directly from soundcard B's driver - so none of the applications need to "mix-and-match" drivers.
Of course, this may not be particularly cheap - the new soundcard needs only stereo capabilities, but it must have a digital output which is bit-for-bit accurate (not all do), and must have a very stable word-clock if it is not to affect the sound quality of your existing hardware.
There would also be additional latency, as "chaining" the soundcards will sum the delay - though for mastering, this is likely less of a problem than it would be for playing VST synths etc.
RJHollins ·
Hello trogluddite,
My appreciate your analysis !
Having read so many of your posts here on this forum, much respect !
I was getting that 'sinking' feeling when the 'hardware solution' was mentioned.
I guess I was 'encouraged' by the way I was able to configure VSTHost. When I select its' wave device
for INPUT, I can choose 'MME: Virtual Cable 1' , and the OUTPUT Port is set to 'DS:' straight to my card. It also has
an ASIO output. I've not tried many combinations, as this came out working ... fine tuning if needed.
The key was that it worked ... and it seems that NOT having to use ASIO specifically for OUTPUT allows me to use
'VAC' for input, and DirectSound out.
It 'appears' that I can configure VSTHost to also use a 'VAC' for its OUTPUT .... soooooo
Back to a possible SM [software] solution ... 🙂 ???
I know the trial version has some limitations, but I wonder [now] if a standalone solution could be assembled so that
I could 'virtual' OUT of VSTHost -? into 'standalone' via 'virtual' ... have a radio button controlled routing to, say,
3 assignable outputs that could be set with DS or MME destinations ? avoiding ASIO altogether.
Thank-you !!!!
RJHollins ·
bump ... please ...
Still wondering ... can a standalone exe be configed to accept a 'VAC' input and direct outs to a ASIO soundcard?
thx
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