Touch screens obsolete ?

infuzion · 9 Mar 2012

Obviously you have not bought a cell phone the last few years, nor heard of something called the iPad.

Warmonger · 9 Mar 2012

I don't think iPad is armed with Kinect or any other remote-sensing control, but it's not a news of any kind either.

I'm still looking forward to 24" multitouch panel for DJing, definitelly this solution will be no match for such remote device with limited response and depth of control.

adamszabo · 9 Mar 2012

that kinekt thing looks really clubsy. I would never give my trusty mouse away for that.

trogluddite · 9 Mar 2012

adamszabo wrote: I would never give my trusty mouse away for that.

Yes, that's my thoughts too - already I shout at my computer too much already when the wrong thing gets clicked; and the guy in the video looks like he is just very bad at Tai Chi!

IMHO touch screens are good for mobile stuff - makes them smaller and versatile. But for me, "touch" is the very thing that is missing - the fingers cannot feel anything when using the controls, and one cannot use them without the eyes also being in contact, so the user's attention is focused in a different way. For some people maybe that is a good thing, but to me music is about the interaction between the brain, hands and ears; the tactile sensations through the fingers are essential - for using a mixer/MIDI controller just as much as for playing my bass. (I'm sure virtuoso Theremin players would disagree!).

tektoog · 9 Mar 2012

I own a Kinect since my birthday last year (29th of december), cause my girlfriend was fed up with me complaining about the pains I had from staying so many hours behind the computer. So she offered me an Xbox so I could do a bit of exercise... And it worked!! I do about 1 to 2 hours of intense moving everyday since 3 months now, and all the body aches have gone, without saying that I spet all the cigarettes packs out of my lungs... Unbeleivable... the best thing is that you exercise without even knowing it...the game side takes over, captures your mind and make you forget that you're actually moving your body...

infuzion wrote: Obviously you have not bought a cell phone the last few years, nor heard of something called the iPad.

Yes ... you are right... I gave up on cell phones since my last Nokia (I think it was a 7210 as it's even not written on it) in 2003...

infuzion wrote: nor heard of something called the iPad.

I think I might... isn't the next one coming out on march 16, althought they still promote the previous modele on TV?

adamszabo wrote: that kinekt thing looks really clubsy

Well you are also right about that...for this video... From my experience until now, quite many parameters make kinect to be clumsy and inacurrate: light in the room (actually sun rays thru a window directly in the path to subject), background behind subject (white walls are not so good if right behind the subject...), sensor orientation... but once you get it all right and well set up... it's really amazing... really... And it is just the begining... only now, independant developers are begining to release SDK, drivers and softwares... Check out the hacks already made with it...so I wonder what it will be like in 5 years from now...

trogluddite wrote: the tactile sensations through the fingers are essential

Well, if you haven't tried it yet, I really encourage you to do so... I think it really is a breakthru in technology... As a former pingpong player (we say pongist in french) I was quite doubful at the begining... but the brain and human body can be quite dumb sometimes and can easily be fooled... so once you get the way the game behave and you get your hand on it... I swear it's like if you can feel the impact of the ball in your hand... I'm actually at the pro level in the pingpong game..and it took me 3 days of intense gaming to beat the CPU... and that was after 1 month of training to reach the pro level... Same thing with bowling and tennis...sensations are amazing... I also have a fighting game (fighters uncaged) and it's also quite realistic...it really feels like you're actually hitting something... II don’t really want to promote Microsoft stuffs, but as they themselves encourage third party developers by releasing the SDK for free and selling just the Kinect sensor to hook up to the pc, I see a really bright future for this kind of interaction with software… How easy will it be to program moves for robots…simple…just press the record button, move your body and send it to hardware… How easy will it be to control this software mentioned in this thread 3d audio app: AudioGL

I really wonder what the world will be in 20 years from now….. If it doesn't end on December 21st this year...I won't even be able to celebrate my birthday if it's true... 😝

MichaelBenjamin · 9 Mar 2012

every kinect app makes you feel like a clumsy idiot bumbling before the screen. its funny for some minutes, quite unprecise, always got some noticable lag (different depending on app, but i saw not a single one that gave you the instant feel <20ms or so.) maybe this had something to do with the openkinect implementation and the type of apps they were doing, but overall i was not much impressed. besides it being an ape simulator at a party it severely lacks precision. so now all these touch and kinect methods of controlling a machine are made basically for retards (in regard to computers) that either need some entertainment quick fix in virtual la-la-land or as a suboptimal substitute for real hardware interfaces. the precise way to instruct a machine is by concept, or programming, which is unfortunately not expressed as gestures but as words. so these types of gesture interactions will stay unprecise, because we as humans probably have similar gestural expression capabilities for the next hundred years.

tektoog · 9 Mar 2012

MichaelBenjamin wrote: a clumsy idiot bumbling before the screen

MichaelBenjamin wrote: retards (in regard to computers) that either need some entertainment quick fix in virtual la-la-land

Should I take that personally? Or are you talking about the guys from M.I.T? Being sarcastic... But like I said, these are just the premisses of a new way of interacting with computers... so it can't be perfect from ground up... Have you tried the ping pong game ? I think it's the most accurate one I've tried until now with a barely noticeable latency...IMHO...

MichaelBenjamin wrote: the precise way to instruct a machine is by concept, or programming, which is unfortunately not expressed as gestures but as words

Just a matter of translation...People were thinking the same with voice recognition 20 years ago... With many developers working from the same hardware basis, routines are just gonna improve at light speed... This is still Kinect Ver 1.0... what version 5.0 will be like??? P.s: And remember...before 2004 you had to type thousands of lines in code to create a synth... then came S|M... and then you could just draw it ! 🙂

trogluddite · 11 Mar 2012

I agree that these kind of user interfaces will progress, become easier and more intuitive to use etc. - but just as in daily life, the best means to communicate depends on the context and the task.

For example, hand gestures can be very useful in music - think of a band on stage; guitarist points at his monitor and then points upwards - the soundman then turns up the volume on his monitor until he sees the guy give the "thumbs up". The task of getting the right monitor level is done without any words exchanged. But I think this only works best for communicating in "broad strokes" and will never be appropriate for certain tasks when the amount of "data" and accuracy becomes critical - not because of limits to the technology, but because tactile feedback is important to the brain<->muscles interface in our own bodies. To take the "ping-pong" example - it works well because of the visual feedback from the screen - the results of your gestures are immediately obvious from seeing the flight of the ball. But imagine trying to do the same thing to simulate playing a guitar - in classical "fingerstyle" playing, almost every finger is acting independently, yet in perfect synchronisation - as any player will know, you could not possibly do this if you had to watch your fingers to see what they were doing; the sensations through the fingertips are essential. Even more so if playing in a band, or from sheet music, where the eyes are needed for other forms of communication.

In a more trivial sense, I have seen how audiences are often less "engaged" in the performance when watching e.g. "laptop jams" etc. - somehow the audience cannot connect in the same way because the performers appear so "detached", wrapped up as they are in the little world on their laptop screens.

So it is a matter of what communication channel is most appropriate, or most comfortable for the performer (or listener). To go back to the thread title, Kinect etc. will not make touchscreens "obsolete" any more than touchscreens have made keyboards and mice obsolete (word-processing on an iPad anyone?), and no more than MIDI has made guitars and trumpets obsolete - but it does add some new alternatives that I am sure people will find very interesting uses for as the technology matures.