From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
billv ·
Here's my new timing system. It's 100% rock solid in SM or as a VST plug in(Tested in FL Studio) Here's the first bar, after 5 min, it's exactly the same. 😀
Don't know about you guys, but this changes EVERYTHING for me. And finally, the myth is over. SM is now undisputed "KING" and Synthedit can go "rest in peace". 😈
nix ·
How do you set bpm? If u a have actually cracked this I'll skip Hehe
nix ·
'ight, I found the tempo. I'll test it chap. I see ppq isn't neccesary edit- r u still using a ramp? I can't read the code- but maybe not? edit2-does the ramp code do anything? I'll test the timing soon
stw ·
billv wrote: Here's my new timing system. It's 100% rock solid in SM or as a VST plug in(Tested in FL Studio) Here's the first bar, after 5 min, it's exactly the same. 😀
Sorry to say that but it's definitely not! 🙁 Even in your picture (which doesn't tell anything about the resolution) you can see that the attacks of your triggered wave are always on differnt spots of the timeline and more or less far away form the exact comparing measuring line. The amount of elapsed time isn't important in your setup beause the position is always retiriggered by the PPQPos.
Do your testing with a lot of other CPU intense action like dragging windows or turning knobs etc. while running your signal recording. This should show some more obvious results.
nix ·
The ppq pos can be removed from the schematic, this accentuate any error, as said. hmm, this could be practically usable within DAW though? The best I can get is 8 samples, with an external MIDI source.
MegaHurtz ·
Try the reciprocal of the ppq module :P Audiorate, is definitely the only way.
billv ·
stw wrote: Sorry to say that but it's definitely not!
Yes, your right. I've pulled the resolution all the way and it's NOT 100%. Thanks for shooting me down. nix wrote: The best I can get is 8 samples
How do I measure this in samples??
nix wrote: The ppq pos can be removed from the schematic
Will give it a try..
MegaHurtz wrote: Try the reciprocal of the ppq module :P Audiorate, is definitely the only way.
Mate, I don't code. I'm a cowboy. Can you explain that again but in a "dumb" way.
Anyway It's a lot better than the timer I'm using. It's the most accurate one I've done so far. Hopefully someone will find it usefull untill I get it to 100%. Throwing it in the X11 now for a quick update and then I'll take another look.
Thanks for all feedback.
nix ·
My sequencer uses a MIDI control signal from Usine. The fastest rate is 8 sample BLOCS which I guess are the chunks of audio- they are called blocks is it? Anyway- at like 500 bpm 16th notes there is no perceptible deviation. It would be possible to measure it in samples in Soundforge- maybe u can do it in Edison. Render/record some single notes of noise. Drop a marker on the start of the noise in the control track, then put a marker at the same sample number in ur seqs track. This will in indicate the deviation. I will test your system soon bill, thanks for being persistent. edit- many VSTs and hosts process in blocks- perhaps they r called chunks? This is what Usine does. The timing tightness is dependant on the length of the chunks. damn-what r they called these coder's grains
billv ·
nix wrote: I will test your system
Thanks mate. You did warn me more that a year ago that this wasn't going to be easy. Sometimes you can get away with murder with just Perserverence and no intel. Looking forward to your test results and ideas. Cheers
billv ·
Here's version 2. Got two modes. It uses my timer in sm and switches to another set up for host time. Results are much better. Getting real close. It's at the point you can't percieve anything wrong with your ears. This pic has the resolution pushed all the way.
Edit: Host mode still needs dividing for tempo. Working on that now.
billv ·
Here's a test in host mode with the X11 about 5 min into Preset 2. So its a heavy load with everything going. I'm getting variations, but there not too bad. Bear in mind the X11 is pretty big.
I'm having a struggle dividing the tempo in host mode. So at the moment the host mode is locked at 1/4.
nix ·
Happy B_day! Hope the year bring contents in ur audio endeavours. Would you like to see some timing tests done with 2 development environments- our SM, and Sensomusic Usine? If u want to use the free version, I can export ur Usine projects to VST? hmm, even using instruments that are 'humanised' is not against the rules-- if it sounds good-I think it is good to go 8D We r stuck with this system, if we had Ruby(like flowstone)- could we call a VSTi .dll, peeps?
billv ·
nix wrote: Happy B_day!
Thanks mate. 11 years old today. The life's goal is to have a 21st. Ha ha.
nix wrote: Would you like to see some timing tests
Hell yes. Spent last 36 hours on it again. Tried heaps of stuff. I Pulled out your "Dreamtimer" again Nix. Noticed it had dual mode as well. I' m going to have another look at it to see if yours divides tempo in ppq mode. I'm still stuck there. And I'm 99% sure I'm going the wrong way about it.
I think I've found the ideal solution, but I'm gonna have to code it, which is alien to me, So I'm off to the help section.
nix ·
OK, u asked 4 it. I break out the DreamTimer. It should be 8 samples accurate if I understand this 'blocs'. hehe, big ups the aboriginal element ur 001101 in binary
billv ·
I just spent half the day with the dreamtimer. It was going so well I decided to have a 3 legged horse race.Not fair to put in BV Host time(has no tempo control) but I just put it in to compare. All three were recorded at the same time. The score system was 1 if your closest, 2 for being 2nd and 3 for being last. If a dead heat-both winners get zero and loser gets 2. (Same deal the other way around) Went through the bars, one by one, I counted a page full of numbers, result was BV Host Time-66 Nix Dreamtimer-66 BV SM Time-55
Nix, it's always the same thing over and over. Were just hovering around the money. Who care's if we get it to 99.999 Blah blah %. It's not good enough. it's like "Buddy Guy" said,"99 and a half, just won't do. Got to be a hundred". And you know as well as I do the ticker is to blame. Have you seen the FL Studio Synthmaker Clock Module? Download FL and check it out. It's embarrassing. One thing drives it. 4 numbers looping in green from the PPQ. And its 100% on the money-everytime. I just can't believe we can't make it happen in SM.
Yeh, so I'm scrapping the Host time set up and just keep SM Time, and continue to try to find a way to get rid of the ticker. Nix, Let me know if you improve your version. My Dreamtimer had a missing fist bar, but I managed to fix that a little. I'll keep working on it.
Thanks for helping out.
nix ·
Yep, it's screwy how we can have a MIDI timer in other hosts that is better. btw, I have given up on an SM green timer. I use MAX/msp or Usine. I'll run some tests to see, but Usine is swift. The advantages of using Usine are large for me- 1.you can render 2.there are no deviations when performing graphics tasks I don't understand why we can't wrap a module that gives us good timing for SM, perhaps it's possible if we get Ruby
billv ·
Will take another look at Usine. But as for SM, Yeh, Sorry Nix, but I'm really over it now. Tommorrow I'm gonna throw up the last update to X11 Standalone. Will start asap on a X11 Fl Studio Generator. Not happy that it won't be a VST Plug in. But seeing as FL Studio is a free download, and you can cut audio tracks with it(which is how the X11 is used) makes it hurt a bit less. Slowly dragging my modules over to FL. Have already put clock in my X11 seq's, tested them and it's a"wet dream". Faultless. So I'm gonna have a go at building a real quality product. Would be nice to do-just once, yeh.
nix ·
It's alright bill- I seek other timers anyway. hmm- can I convert u to usine? It has VST export where u can wrap VSTs in it- if u own the rights to the VST, or ur user already has them. Please stay in touch and tell me what ur up to if ya want. I'll pm u my email- Hope you find contents in ur creations
billv ·
nix wrote: can I convert u to usine
Downloaded it last night. Took a quick peek online.looks real interesting. Looking forward to opening it up when I finish the X11 Update.
nix wrote: Please stay in touch and tell me what ur up to if ya want. I'll pm u my email-
I'd like that. My e-mail is on my website below.
billv ·
Took me about half an hour to complete the FL generator. Unreal. Will be released in a few days to FL website, for those interested. I think thta's the best way to go for me at the moment. Knock em up in SM and punch em out in FL. I've released a VST version with BVSM Timer for the rest of them out there. All good. Now. Wow man, Usine looks really powerfull......I'm enjoying this new toy........
billv ·
Nix, if your interested, I've got a version of your dreamtimer that's wicked. I've stripped it back to nothing and it's giving my timer a whipping. It's closer to the mark 90% of the time. It's "host" mode only.
nix ·
It probably would be just as good without the host only mode, if you want a standalone type scenario. I see u used my trigger divide thingy. hehe. It is logical that if you divide the trigger you could generate quick ones. oddson actually did all the clever bits in that one- the faked ppq and related logic. It's likely the trigger divider could be put together better-so extract a few more ms accuracy.
billv ·
Was thinking the same thing. Today I'm gonna have a go at taking the "Truncate" part, and do it in blue. See what happens.
nix wrote: oddson actually did all the clever bits in that one
Not suprised. Everything in this forum seems to be a "Combined effort". It's great stuff..
billv ·
Hey guys. Found this post. Seems to be the "Last Word" on timing in SM. Great Stuff. Bool2tick primitive
Wrote something here? To have a post removed or your name hidden, write to [email protected].
SynthMaker