SynthMakertracert ·
I have do a mono stream phase invereter but dont' work, Why ? i have uploaded my schematic.
Phase inverter
From the original SynthMaker forum (2004–2014), with its members’ names and dates.
lesobrod ·
Firstly, here you should use Float (F) instead of Integers (I). If this would not help, tell, please, "don't work" how?
theun ·
lesobrod wrote: Firstly, here you should use Float (F) instead of Integers (I).
SM isn't that strict. Using an integer here works also.
It´s quite easy to test simple schematics, e.g. like this
Acrobat ·
lesobrod wrote: Firstly, here you should use Float (F) instead of Integers (I).
well no it's ok to use the integer -1 to revert the phase and it should work - anyway we usually call "stream" the grey stream carrying multiple voices information, this is better to be called an "audio mono signal" instead. 😉
tracert ·
I need to rotate the phase of incoming signal , but the oscilloscope, show me the same phase of the input signal
trogluddite ·
tracert wrote: rotate the phase
Sorry if this is a silly question, but do you really mean 'rotate the phase' or do you mean 'invert the signal' - it is only the same thing for certain symmetrical waveforms, yet many technical documents still mix them up. Multiplying by -1 will invert a signal, but to phase shift (like the phase input to an oscillator) requires delaying the signal in time.
Acrobat wrote: anyway we usually call "stream" the grey stream carrying multiple voices
I wouldn't agree with that - a stream is so called because it carries a continuous flow of information transported at a guaranteed rate, which could easily apply to any information e.g. also video. So mono, mono4 and poly are all types of stream, in contrast with green/yellow data which consists of discrete events.
tracert ·
ok, my d.a.w. dont have a button to rotate (180) the phase of incoming audio signal, i need a simple software to do this... some help ?
lesobrod ·
It looks like intricate mystification ))) I agree about Integers (but sometimes it may be important), so your very first schematic must work.
trogluddite wrote: Multiplying by -1 will invert a signal, but to phase shift (like the phase input to an oscillator) requires delaying the signal in time.
Cool, as always from Trog. 😉 But we should start from symm waveform and just damn invert it! It seems something wrong at the rest part of schematic, so OSM, please!
trogluddite ·
Ah yes, so it is really an inversion that you need - many makers of audio hardware/software call this '180 phase', but technically, that is not correct. Mostly people understand what is meant, but for making synths the difference is more important than for a mixer etc. (Sorry for me being such a geek - I do not think you are stupid, you are not to blame if the 'teachers' told you wrong!) 😉 🙂
Your *-1 idea should do what you need - so if you use a Saw wave you should see something like Theun's picture, with wave going 'up' instead of 'down'.
If this is not happening then you should post your design so that we can take a look, maybe there is a problem elsewhere that needs fixing, or a VST export is not working correctly.
CoreStyler ·
something like
streamin in; steamout out;
out = in * -1;
or not? 😊
lesobrod ·
CoreStyler wrote: or not? 😊
Well I hope this code works as first picture ( only if SM was not designed by aliens)))
CoreStyler ·
What i dont understand is... did the rigth example will require the same amount of CPU of the left (with asm).. Should be =, because when the compiler create the VST or EXE, should interpretate the primitive in the same code of ASM component or not?
stw ·
as you can see, it does....
CoreStyler ·
Well. So changing from code to asm will not make nothing better, true only if i can "fix" directly ASM.
tracert ·
But, you have tested your schematic on a d.a.w. ? On my d.a.w. phase not changed...
lesobrod ·
This is fantastic discussion. (oo__OO) Please,tracert , don't be insulted! 😇 How about Reaper 4.1? The simple *(-1) works OK. I sure that problem is in other part of OSM; or in compilation to VST; or in connection with DAW. Well I'd got some problems with Reaper + SM-VST but all af them was in the special features "SM as compiler VS Reaper as host". So OSM and name of DAW please!!
tracert ·
sorry... tank you for your time.
trogluddite ·
That's no problem - it's what the forum is here for. 🙂
dutchound ·
tracert wrote: But, you have tested your schematic on a d.a.w. ? On my d.a.w. phase not changed...
if you invert a signal amplitude it will be flipped 180 phase if it is a waveform that looks radially symmetric over its middle point...
\/\ /\/
that is a phase and amplitude inversion
if you have this /|/|/| waveform and you want to invert its phase so it becomes \|\|\|\
then you have to have a special knob on the oscillator that sais phase...
think about it, its pretty simple but you need to do some pictures to know what the mathematics does to your waveform.
i thought your replies sound pretty ... confused abotu what you are talking about!
Acrobat ·
lesobrod wrote: CoreStyler wrote: or not? 😊
Well I hope this code works as first picture ( only if SM was not designed by aliens)))
MMmh no, it will definitely not work as a phase inverter if you feed it with the wrong source. i.e. if the incoming white stream is not already an oscillator output but, say, a frequency coming from M2P or other kind of messages like transposition, etc. (That's why I was focusing on stream type in my earlier message, Trog) 😉
ANYWAY, as always, looking at the whole OSM is resolutive.... 😉
trogluddite ·
Acrobat wrote: (That's why I was focusing on stream type in my earlier message, Trog)
Homo pedanticus = Trog wrote: In a formal way, a data stream is any ordered pair (s,Δ) where: 1) s is a sequence of tuples and 2) Δ is a sequence of positive real time intervals. As defined in data protocol standards (via Wikipedia reference!!)
Note there is no mention of what the data represents - it could just as easily be one data packet per day announcing how many times I have got all nerdy about technical terms!!
You are quite right to emphasise that the 'meaning' of the data is totally in the hands of the designer. From my time with analogue synths, I believe that this is an important distinction to make - a 'stream', 'triggered event', 'control voltage' etc. is just the medium via which data of some kind is transmitted. That's precisely why I like to be precise - I think it encourages us to keep the 'meaning' of the data, and how it is 'moved' separate, so that we do not make rash assumptions about what a signal might be. (If you ever stuck a 1/4 jack into a socket expecting to hear audio, and deafened everyone with a SMPTE time code signal, you'll know just what I mean!!) Float your mouse over the 'black circle' connector in the toolbox filter - it says 'Stream filter'. The 'gods' of SM have decreed that 'stream' is the technical term for all sample rate data. And they have given explicit names to all species within that genus. As with the 'inverter' vs. '180deg phase' question, it can only lead to confusion if we use technical terms indiscriminately - we can learn (and teach) much more effectively we can agree on the language..
Wrote something here? To have a post removed or your name hidden, write to [email protected].