possible controls autosaving breakthrough.....

trogluddite · 17 Oct 2011

Some examples would be good - it is hard to fathom exactly why you would want the control settings to be independent of the host's project file (to set behavioural/GUI preferences maybe?) - and you may well find that you are 're-inventing the wheel' and could get some good advice.

Dell · 18 Oct 2011

tinkergnome wrote: i think i have a bit more R&D to discover whether the patch then made as a plugin could retain individualistic settings and not manipulate itself every time you load it into your chosen VST host.

That will be your biggest obstacle for many hosts require the preset manager in order to render.

What is your reason for not wanting the preset manager?

tinkergnome · 18 Oct 2011

well alright i suppose i should display what i am trying to do. i had a thought that the preset manager would potentially get in the way of my wanting to save controls settings by always prompting me to manually save a file to disk. i'd rather that process be automated and not have to deal with it before/while ANY settings are saved. i can display a template of what i'm doing to show whether it would require this preset manager. perhaps with how the help file is laid out, it doesn't really explain much in terms of the input points & what not to do that would freeze/crash the program. i could imagine searching blindly about understanding some of the components would be a damaging idea.

upon looking into the schematic, you'll notice that there is a (S) obj that has a path. this path correlates to a text file that will be generated upon moving the slider. the problem begins when i had tried to alter this path with some internal function/ componentry. if i manually change this path (by typing a new text file name) & then save the *.osm, it works exactly how i want. i tried several different things to achieve that but .... it seems as though it records the step behind where the adjustment would be if it were working right. i had a similar problem exist when i had worked things in max/msp ,.... i was able to figure it out, though i understand yet still synthmaker is ultimately different.

upon what trogluddite mentioned,.... why would i want a control to be independent of a VST's project file? ...... i'm not aware completely of what a preset manager object can seriously do though, does/is that object a recognizable function that most/if not all VST hosts would utilize when a plugin would load and accounting for its controls features/settings. please keep in mind, i'm rather new to this environment and as most people would estimate,... i have plethora of questions. yet i do seriously wish to understand the inner workings/dynamics of how VST synths/fx plugins would/should work properly.

as for dell's question of why i want to avoid/not using a preset manager,... i have suspicions that it will not give me results i want for it to work, plus i feel certain it would cause me to have to restructure it completely,..... as stubborn as that may sound. i don't mean to express it just that way,... i figured i have it working the way i want to some extent.

one last thought,....... it would seriously be a nice idea if a compendium of knowledge be made available to those who frequent this forum to even get a basic understanding of how to use or connect components together correctly for a VST synth/fx plugin to operate properly if even in most/if not all VST hosts would interpret plugins the same way from host to host. in terms of how the VST param/preset manager/etc objects work or are interpreted by all VST hosts/specific VST hosts. as it stands i've not been able to learn much from what i see within the help files. i feel as though i'm fishing around blindly having to rely on them.

tinkergnome · 18 Oct 2011

one other idea has come to mind recently.......

how can someone save a *.osm that if its the *.osm they have currently open within synthmaker. what i mean by that is ...... lets say for instance you have an "abc000.osm" open in synthmaker then when you make a change to the project file,...... and you normally would see an asterisk behind the file name appear, meaning it should be saved to continue with using the project at a saved point. how can someone build functionality within that project file to allow you to..... say... click a image/shape/button on the front panel and save this *.osm without clicking from the menu "save" or "save as" ??????? i can imagine no one has attempted to explore this,.... unless that are no components that can allow this. either way i'm not aware if its possible, due to the lack of help file information........ and i don't mean any disrespect by that.

Dell · 18 Oct 2011

tinkergnome wrote: as for dell's question of why i want to avoid/not using a preset manager,... i have suspicions that it will not give me results i want for it to work, plus i feel certain it would cause me to have to restructure it completely,..... as stubborn as that may sound. i don't mean to express it just that way,... i figured i have it working the way i want to some extent.

You don’t need to use the preset manager however the digital audio workstation requires the preset manager to communicate with the user controls displayed on the graphic user interface. If you are creating your design for your own personal use in which, the digital audio workstation performs flawlessly without the preset manager, by all means don’t use it.

However, if you are planning to offer your work publicly, the preset manager is needed for users to create their own presets. It is also needed to save a project with the proper plug-in settings and recall the project with the same settings to pick up where the user left off.

Even though I don’t use presets, the preset manager is included in all my public vsts for reasons stated above. I might add, certain digital audio workstations will offer the wrong settings when rendering if the preset manager is not available.

Cheers!

Tzarls · 18 Oct 2011

Dell wrote: I might add, certain digital audio workstations will offer the wrong settings when rendering if the preset manager is not available.

Cheers!

Not really... if the preset manager is not present, then the DAW has no way of controllng the...er.... controls of the plugin. So the rendering will be made with the controls of the plugin set in their current position. Of course, no automation will be available, since, at least from the DAW´s point of view, there are no controls in the plugin.

Dell · 18 Oct 2011

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: I might add, certain digital audio workstations will offer the wrong settings when rendering if the preset manager is not available.

Cheers!

Not really... if the preset manager is not present, then the DAW has no way of controllng the...er.... controls of the plugin. So the rendering will be made with the controls of the plugin set in their current position. Of course, no automation will be available, since, at least from the DAW´s point of view, there are no controls in the plugin.

Bear in mind that all Digital Audio Workstations react differently. Which Digital Audio Workstations have you tested that you are certain that will operate properly, using a synthmaker vst without the preset manager in terms of saving projects for future use and rendering audio files?

trogluddite · 18 Oct 2011

tinkergnome wrote: i'm not aware completely of what a preset manager object can seriously do though, does/is that object a recognizable function that most/if not all VST hosts would utilize when a plugin would load and accounting for its controls features/settings.

Yes, this is the main point of the preset manager - it communicates to the VST host in a way which is defined as part of the VST standard - in order that the functionality will work in all hosts (though some hosts do not quite implement the standard fully) When the plugin is loaded into a host, the manager allows the host to communicate with the controls, and the host also takes responsibility for remembering the settings. There are two main purposes for this...

1) The host will remember the plugin settings, and will store them to disk along with the 'song' or 'project' file. When you next load your song, the VST plugin will be restored with those settings. The key to this is that it is done 'per project', so that each song will remember the appropriate preset. Saving presets to disk manually is then only necessary if you wish to keep a backup copy, to copy a preset between songs or to share them with other users.

2) It enables the host to read and write to the controls so that you can record and replay control automation.

This is why I asked for your reason for your 'autosave' feature. Using an independent file, as you are doing, would result in every project loading up with the same preset settings. So if the plugin were used in several project, the most recently saved settings would end up being used for all of them - which is often inappropriate if you have just switched projects.

There are some cases where your method can be useful though - for example, you might wish a sampler plugin to remember a folder where the user keeps a loop 'library'. It can also be handy if your schematic is to be used without a host as a stand-alone .exe application, e.g. to store the soundcard routing setup.

cyto · 19 Oct 2011

tinkergnome wrote: how can someone save a *.osm that if its the *.osm they have currently open within synthmaker. [...] without clicking from the menu "save" or "save as" ???????

CTRL-S works (if you don't want to go all the way up to the menu).

-cyto

Tzarls · 19 Oct 2011

Dell wrote: Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: I might add, certain digital audio workstations will offer the wrong settings when rendering if the preset manager is not available.

Cheers!

Not really... if the preset manager is not present, then the DAW has no way of controllng the...er.... controls of the plugin. So the rendering will be made with the controls of the plugin set in their current position. Of course, no automation will be available, since, at least from the DAW´s point of view, there are no controls in the plugin.

Bear in mind that all Digital Audio Workstations react differently. Which Digital Audio Workstations have you tested that you are certain that will operate properly, using a synthmaker vst without the preset manager in terms of saving projects for future use and rendering audio files?

Remember that from the host´s point of view, there´s no such thing as a preset manager - the pm is only a representation (in SM) of what is actually going on behind the scenes. The host can only get some info such as number of parameters as reported by the plugin itself, and it can try to set any parameter´s value (by using the setParameter() method) or get the current value of a given parameter ( getParameter() ). But even if the host insists in setting some parameter values in a 0 parameters plugin, in the end it´s the plugin that decides what to do in any case.

In SM, my guess is that if no PM is present, the plugin reports 0 parameters. And if the host insists on calling setParameter() and getParameter(), the plugin just ignores the calls (or returns 0). In any case, this doesn´t prevent the host (and plugin) to render properly with the current (manually) set values.

tinkergnome · 19 Oct 2011

in response to cyto when they quoted me......

tinkergnome wrote:how can someone save a *.osm that if its the *.osm they have currently open within synthmaker. [...] without clicking from the menu "save" or "save as" ??????? cyto replied: by pressing CTRL+ S

i meant is there a way to build functionality within the schematic that could allow you to click a button/shape control/etc on the front panel of what would become the plugin and it just saves the *.osm somehow........ i guess i should have said that instead.

well in any case.... i wasn't trying to stir up any arguments with this topic.... though, if anyone (perhaps any one of the five individuals who've downloaded the schematic "acps001BB.osm") has had a chance to review it to let me know if i could somehow fix this problem with it..... if it can be remedied ?

this schematic is a singular vslider control registers a value/slide position to a text file.... and in turn when the schematic reloads, it returns the saved slider position & value. the problem with it seems that if i were to load another instance of this plugin both schematics will be altering the same text file and i wanted to know how i could have the next (nth other) instances rely on their own text/CFG file..... ? if that's possible to achieve ?

Dell · 19 Oct 2011

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: Bear in mind that all Digital Audio Workstations react differently. Which Digital Audio Workstations have you tested that you are certain that will operate properly, using a synthmaker vst without the preset manager in terms of saving projects for future use and rendering audio files?

Remember that from the host´s point of view, there´s no such thing as a preset manager - the pm is only a representation (in SM) of what is actually going on behind the scenes. The host can only get some info such as number of parameters as reported by the plugin itself, and it can try to set any parameter´s value (by using the setParameter() method) or get the current value of a given parameter ( getParameter() ). But even if the host insists in setting some parameter values in a 0 parameters plugin, in the end it´s the plugin that decides what to do in any case.

In SM, my guess is that if no PM is present, the plugin reports 0 parameters. And if the host insists on calling setParameter() and getParameter(), the plugin just ignores the calls (or returns 0). In any case, this doesn´t prevent the host (and plugin) to render properly with the current (manually) set values.

Actually it does cause a problem. I take it you are not using or tested Wavelab. 😉

Wavelab relies heavily on the preset manager when rendering since, wavelab's philosophy on rendering follows a complete different topology than other Digital Audio Workstations. You would be surprised how finicky certain hosts can be when you are distributing your plug-ins to the masses. The only way to ensure everything is in working order is to literally test your design on nearly every host. 🙂

tinkergnome · 19 Oct 2011

i commonly use FL studio for VST testing..... i guess that wouldn't mean much. perhaps fl studio provides a generic type of VST support,... for all its worth. i hope that most of the testing i do would yield some good result soon, otherwise i'll be back in here asking/begging for help on this.

trogluddite · 19 Oct 2011

Yes, you are right, testing in FL may not reveal much - due to the FL/SM tie in, the integration there is likely to be better, due to the exchange of ideas between the two companies. Ironically enough, it is Steinberg, creators of the VST 'standard', who seem to sabotage the smooth running of VST presets more than any other software developer!

Tzarls · 19 Oct 2011

Dell wrote: Wavelab relies heavily on the preset manager when rendering since, wavelab's philosophy on rendering follows a complete different topology than other Digital Audio Workstations.

I remember having some problems some time ago with Wavelab.... not directly related to this Preset Manager thing, but gave me some lights on how Wavelab works..... As far as I can remember, Wavelab loads a second instance of every plugin when rendering, and then copies the settings of the first instances to the new instances, right? Ok then, such copying process uses the getParameter and setParameter methods I described, so the same conditions apply - WL loads your plugins, which opens with "default" settings (the knobs and faders are in the positions they were when you exported your .dll). Then Wavelab tries to update the parameters using the methods mentioned above. If SM has no PM (and if it works the way I think) then it just ignores those calls (or returns 0) and the plugin doesn´t update it´s controls. So the rendering goes wrong.

Or maybe you are refering to some other peculiarity of WL?

tinkergnome · 19 Oct 2011

ok .... so i'm looking over this preset manager widget (not the black box) how can i wire this into my schematic and have it work the way it should or the way i want it to.

Dell · 20 Oct 2011

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: Wavelab relies heavily on the preset manager when rendering since, wavelab's philosophy on rendering follows a complete different topology than other Digital Audio Workstations.

I remember having some problems some time ago with Wavelab.... not directly related to this Preset Manager thing, but gave me some lights on how Wavelab works..... As far as I can remember, Wavelab loads a second instance of every plugin when rendering, and then copies the settings of the first instances to the new instances, right? Ok then, such copying process uses the getParameter and setParameter methods I described, so the same conditions apply - WL loads your plugins, which opens with "default" settings (the knobs and faders are in the positions they were when you exported your .dll). Then Wavelab tries to update the parameters using the methods mentioned above. If SM has no PM (and if it works the way I think) then it just ignores those calls (or returns 0) and the plugin doesn´t update it´s controls. So the rendering goes wrong.

Or maybe you are refering to some other peculiarity of WL?

Due to the co-relation of the knobs and preset manager, Wavelab bypasses the knob settings and focuses on the maximum numerical figure if a preset manager is not embedded in the OSM.

The end result is having the output heavily clipped (squared waved) after rendering the track. Even if you have a default setting upon porting the OSM to VST, you still require the preset manager for the knobs are operating as real time presets (Sending the information to the Preset Manager) as far as Wavelab is concerned in which, the user can manually control.

Bear in mind Wavelab performs real time rendering. This means you can render an audio file with effects, while having the audio file being played in real time at the same time. I don’t believe I’ve encountered another audio editing software that can work in such a manor. There are other features that are rather unique however the average Wavelab user only focuses on montage and not the editing side of Wavelab.

Wavelab’s method is very proprietary due to offering features (Real time VST streaming & destructive editing was available in Wavelab in 1998-99) other audio editing devices did not posses. So it's prinicpals differ compared to Cubase for neither Cubase nor Wavelab are designed by the same developer.

Cheers!

Dell · 20 Oct 2011

tinkergnome wrote: ok .... so i'm looking over this preset manager widget (not the black box) how can i wire this into my schematic and have it work the way it should or the way i want it to.

You can just insert the preset manager (The Black Box) in your OSM and hide it. I only use the preset manager to "reset" the controls to it's factory default.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXM018c-EFg

Here is the tutorial on how to configure the preset manager.

[old link]

Cheers!

tinkergnome · 20 Oct 2011

thanks dell , much appreciated... wait a minute.... so i have the PRS manager in there, it seems all i need to do is just name the controls uniquely then save a program1.txt. i don't need to connect anything to the PRS manager itself? hmmm,....

Tzarls · 20 Oct 2011

Dell wrote: Due to the co-relation of the knobs and preset manager, Wavelab bypasses the knob settings and focuses on the maximum numerical figure if a preset manager is not embedded in the OSM.

Interesting.... how did you get that information? I mean, is that an assumption based on observation, or did you have access to the source code? Time to make some tests I guess... 😉

Dell wrote: Bear in mind Wavelab performs real time rendering. This means you can render an audio file with effects, while having the audio file being played in real time at the same time. I don’t believe I’ve encountered another audio editing software that can work in such a manor. There are other features that are rather unique however the average Wavelab user only focuses on montage and not the editing side of Wavelab.

AFAIK, Cubase and Nuendo can also render in realtime, and if you alter any plugin parameters while rendering, it´ll affect the output. You can even play a VSTi while rendering, and it´ll be included in the output!

Dell wrote: So it's prinicpals differ compared to Cubase for neither Cubase nor Wavelab are designed by the same developer.

What do you mean? Wavelab and Cubase are both Steinberg´s....or by developer you mean the programming team?

Dell · 20 Oct 2011

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: Due to the co-relation of the knobs and preset manager, Wavelab bypasses the knob settings and focuses on the maximum numerical figure if a preset manager is not embedded in the OSM.

Interesting.... how did you get that information? I mean, is that an assumption based on observation, or did you have access to the source code? Time to make some tests I guess... 😉

I've used Wavelab since version 2. It is now on version 7. I'm always using Wavelab for testing. There is not a day that doesn't go by that I do not use Wavelab.

When I made my first plug-ins, none of them would render properly due to not offering the preset manager. I practically gave up until some bloke offered an OSM of a design. It rendered properly in Wavelab, and the only thing it offered other than mine was the preset manager.

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: Bear in mind Wavelab performs real time rendering. This means you can render an audio file with effects, while having the audio file being played in real time at the same time. I don’t believe I’ve encountered another audio editing software that can work in such a manor. There are other features that are rather unique however the average Wavelab user only focuses on montage and not the editing side of Wavelab.

AFAIK, Cubase and Nuendo can also render in realtime, and if you alter any plugin parameters while rendering, it´ll affect the output. You can even play a VSTi while rendering, and it´ll be included in the output!

Cubase is not an Audio Editor in the same sense as wavelab. You can use as an Audio Editor but, it is not remotely close to Wavelab in terms of Audio Editing. Cubase methods are like any other multi-track DAW. Nuendo came much later and adapted a lot of features from Cubase. Wavelab is a single track audio editor with the ability to merge tracks together using audio montage to create red book cds. It does not use VSTi's it was designed to use VSTs.

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: So it's prinicpals differ compared to Cubase for neither Cubase nor Wavelab are designed by the same developer.

What do you mean? Wavelab and Cubase are both Steinberg´s....or by developer you mean the programming team?

Wavelab is designed by Phillipe Goutier. Cubase is designed by someone else. Steinberg owns the names but doesn't have a very strong influence on how it is designed. One can look at it as Harmon owning JBL and Crown. Each company has their own designer even though sitting under one umbrella.

tinkergnome · 20 Oct 2011

i think i see how it may work.... though i still would have to render it as a plugin to test it in FL studio with the PRS manager inside i hope it would allow me to add multiple instances of the plugin with the PRS manager just laying inside it ... as i thought i would not need to connect anything to it?

Dell · 20 Oct 2011

tinkergnome wrote: i think i see how it may work.... though i still would have to render it as a plugin to test it in FL studio with the PRS manager inside i hope it would allow me to add multiple instances of the plugin with the PRS manager just laying inside it ... as i thought i would not need to connect anything to it?

You can create your own presets, store them in a folder and, recall them for later use "On the fly". Every DAW has their own proprietary file that will enable you to do this with the preset manager.

The knobs in Synthmaker already have the components to talk to the Preset Manager embedded in it's circuitry (I am a hardware designer so I tend to use hardware terminology). So you merely need to have the Preset Manager present in order for it to work.

Cheers!

tinkergnome · 20 Oct 2011

testing this in FLstudio ...... o_O WHOA!!

OMG!! it actually does work that way........ i'm terribly sorry for not believing that. i had no idea it could be that simple...

tinkergnome · 20 Oct 2011

so basically ..... the structure i had set .... was pretty much 95 % complete and all i had to do was drop in this PRS manager and change the slider name plates ...... that's f**kin crazy.... i can't believe i couldn't make that connection

hmmm.... thanks a million dell, trogluddite... and many others who recommended this.... i'm forever in your debt.

Dell · 20 Oct 2011

We've all fell in that situation one time or another. The preset manager always seems to draw a mystery for many.

When you have spare time, open up Synthmaker and explore as much of the stock components as possible. Create your own tutorials using schematics (OSMs) to get a better understanding what the components can offer you and, how they can be put to use, based on your creativity.

tinkergnome · 20 Oct 2011

how about that ..... i just put together a moduled synth....... and the PRS manager worked in that too i'll be damned!! its like a golden goose. i tell you what ...... the types of synths i could make, i'm scheming on some things now. 😀 well done.... i never knew it could be that easy. thanks a billion dell

tinkergnome · 20 Oct 2011

stay tuned kids........ there may be some barnstorming events a happening with this new found wisdom i have learned.... muhahahahhah !!!

trogluddite · 20 Oct 2011

He he 😀 The shortest path from A to B is a straight line. But the scenic route along all the little country lanes is often more inspirational!

Tzarls · 20 Oct 2011

Dell wrote: Due to the co-relation of the knobs and preset manager, Wavelab bypasses the knob settings and focuses on the maximum numerical figure if a preset manager is not embedded in the OSM.

Just made a quick test. Created a VST out of an Amp module - just a knob and a couple of VCAs, no Preset Manager. Unticked "Preset" and "Auto" in the knob´s preference panel. Created the VST with the knob at 9 o´clock.

Loaded a .wav file in Wavelab 6. Inserted my plugin. Rendered. No matter what I did with the knob, it always rendered with the 9 o´clock setting. So it lowered the level of my audio file. It didn´t set the vcas to the maximum numerical value as you wrote (which would be "1" as the VST SDK states). The VCAs always multiplied my samples by aprox. 0.25. 😈 Unless I´m overseeing something? mmmmmm.....

Dell · 21 Oct 2011

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: Due to the co-relation of the knobs and preset manager, Wavelab bypasses the knob settings and focuses on the maximum numerical figure if a preset manager is not embedded in the OSM.

Just made a quick test. Created a VST out of an Amp module - just a knob and a couple of VCAs, no Preset Manager. Unticked "Preset" and "Auto" in the knob´s preference panel. Created the VST with the knob at 9 o´clock.

Why would you untick the Preset when it is factory default to tick?

If you save a project with the effect positioned at 9 o'clock, close the file and recall the project can you guarantee the knob will be positioned at 9 o'clock in MAGIX Products?

How would you make presets (FXB files in Wavelab/Cubase) if you disconnect the preset on the knob?

You seem to be overlooking one thing. When you offer a VST to the public, it must operate in nearly every DAW/Audio Editing Software properly or you will get bombarded with a lot of complaints. If you are using it for personal purposes you can focus primarily on your choice of DAW.

Bear in mind how a developer expects the client to use a plug-in and, how the customer actually uses the plug-in are two different things. So it is safer to have the preset manager installed so the user can create his or her own presets than getting an email stating it won't save it's setting in XYZ DAW.

Here is a video using Synthmaker's Parameteric Equaliser offering no Preset Manager embedded in the OSM doing exactly what I claimed. This video will be deleted within 24 hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgAx4F247eM

Tzarls · 21 Oct 2011

Dell wrote: Why would you untick the Preset when it is factory default to tick?

Ok, I´ll make a test with the "preset" thingy ticked, but I ´m sure it will make no difference.

Dell wrote: If you save a project with the effect positioned at 9 o'clock, close the file and recall the project can you guarantee the knob will be positioned at 9 o'clock in MAGIX Products?

Yep, 100% sure. If there´s no preset manager, then there´s no way the host can control the parameters of the plugin. The plugin will load with the parameters at the positions they were when the plug was exported.

Dell wrote: Bear in mind how a developer expects the client to use a plug-in and, how the customer actually uses the plug-in are two different things. So it is safer to have the preset manager installed so the user can create his or her own presets than getting an email stating it won't save it's setting in XYZ DAW.

Oh, but I totally agree! I think having a preset manager is mandatory, even if it´s hidden. What I was trying to prove is that if there´s no preset manager, then all controls will be at "export" position every time the plugin is loaded, and that the host has no way to control the parameters of the plugin. I´ll test the parametric eq to find what´s going on there. Now, we agree that this is just friendly arguing, right? 😀

Dell · 21 Oct 2011

Tzarls wrote: Dell wrote: Why would you untick the Preset when it is factory default to tick?

Ok, I´ll make a test with the "preset" thingy ticked, but I ´m sure it will make no difference.

Did you not see the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgAx4F247eM

It appears you are trying to prove something to yourself for I don't see why you are still disputing something when the video speaks for itself.

Tzarls wrote: Oh, but I totally agree! I think having a preset manager is mandatory, even if it´s hidden. What I was trying to prove is that if there´s no preset manager, then all controls will be at "export" position every time the plugin is loaded, and that the host has no way to control the parameters of the plugin. I´ll test the parametric eq to find what´s going on there. Now, we agree that this is just friendly arguing, right? 😀

Well, that seems quite obvious since there is no preset manager in the OSM. Wasn't the whole idea of tinkergnome's scheme was to create a device that would work as a preset manager for, he did not know Synthmaker already over came that objective by, offering a preset manager to communicate with the knobs & switches using wireless connections?

Possibly, you were looking at things on how you would use a plug-in and not how others will use the plug-in based on their requirements. Maybe it was your unfamiliarity with Wavelab on how the rendering process differs from Multi-Track DAW. Since you are not a long-time Wavelab user you cannot expect to be very experienced on how it operates.

Tinkergnome appears to be happy using the preset manager so, I'm pretty much done with this thread. If you would like to go on a wild goose chase on trying to prove something that is already justified in the video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgAx4F247eM ) using Wavelab 6 you're on your own. Especially when version 7 follows a different method on how it renders audio compared to the older versions 😉

Have Fun! 🙂

Tzarls · 21 Oct 2011

The fact that the video shows that something is wrong doesn´t prove that WL works the way you (or I) think it does.

Anyway, this is the part that confuses me. If you could explain it a little to me, then maybe I could get you point and learn something

Dell wrote: Due to the co-relation of the knobs and preset manager, Wavelab bypasses the knob settings and focuses on the maximum numerical figure if a preset manager is not embedded in the OSM.

So you say that if there´s no preset manager inside an SM plugin, WL will set every parameter in the plugin to its maximum setting?