Learning DSP etc...

platinumears · 14 Aug 2005

www.dspguide.com

😀

cbit · 14 Aug 2005

..

cbit · 14 Aug 2005

i think im in a similar situation.

jorge recommended me a book called 'the computer music tutorial' here waiting for it to arrive..

sorry for dblepost, dunno how that happened.

lalo · 14 Aug 2005

the computer music tutorial is a great thing 🙂 infact i suggested it to jorge some months ago....

it's a very comprensive work on computer music techniques....but it don't give any clue about 'deep' DSP-math subjects....

if you search what's the math behind (i.e.) spline interpolation..you will find information on what it does and how it works on a general way....but not math explaination....

i've still have to find a book that do all the work (DSP techniques and DSP math) from a 'musician' point of view....

but the Curtis Roads book is wonderful anyway 🙂

lalo

caleb · 14 Aug 2005

Thanks peoples.

I've already downloaded the entire DSP online book and combined it into a single PDF for easy access and printing and will get it printing and bound for myself as a keepsake.

Glad they give you licence to do that once. 😉

I have got the computer music book on my wishlist at Amazon.com and may purchase that as well.

Good having you guys around to help. Bookstores don't tend to be that useful when you're looking for something so specialised.

Caleb

lalo · 14 Aug 2005

caleb wrote: Thanks peoples.

I've already downloaded the entire DSP online book and combined it into a single PDF

how did you do that?..wich software did you used?

thanx lalo

caleb · 14 Aug 2005

What - you mean I might be able to be of assistance in this forum? 😀

The software is called PDFEdit and it's freeware.....well adware I guess. You have to suffer a pop-up to use it for free, but it's not that much of an imposition to tell you the truth. This only happens when you run it by the way. I'm not aware of it putting junky adware on your system or anything like that.

It can do alot of things actually including creating links and bookmarks in your PDF file, optimising a PDF file for web and more...

There are a few pieces of software that are related to this that you also might need to install including: PDF995 and Signature995.

Here's a link:

http://www.pdfedit995.com/

I understand Software995 are basically a company that takes open source products, rebadge them and then release them - free with ad pop-ups or for a small charge.

I understand they also make some changes - but who knows. They sell a Software995 version of OpenOffice for example.

So there might be another more palatable version of the same product lying around somewhere for all I know, but this one is doing me fine for the moment.

Caleb

sambean · 14 Aug 2005

I'd say go for the Computer Music Tutorial book by roads as well, it doesn't go that in depth but covers many things, and at the end of each chapter there's a list of references to explore further..

In terms of DSP books it's hard to judge as the level can vary loads from book to book.. I'd recommend going to your library and getting as many as possible and see which one is most suited to you.. I'd also recommend getting a fundamental mathematics book of some sort just to remind yourself of all those trig identities and such like...

I'd also reccoment the digital audio effects conferences' website www.dafx.de/ , most of the stuff may be too in depth and academic but there's some interesting contemporary papers .. e.g. moog filters.

caleb · 14 Aug 2005

sambean wrote: I'd also recommend getting a fundamental mathematics book of some sort just to remind yourself of all those trig identities and such like...

Yes - this sounds like a good idea.

Unlike DSP books, there's sooooooooooooo many maths books to choose from that I get kinda stumped. Pity there pobably isn't a maths book purely devoted to getting up and running on DSP and computer music etc...

Caleb

sambean · 14 Aug 2005

Yeah, the thing is DSP and the associated maths is a huge area and alot of the time isn't necessary for making good sounding effects or instruments..

Stick to where you're at or where you left off, get books from the library/ second hand/ charity shops/ etc.. And don't let your creativity get bogged down with it..

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/

Can be pretty useful

DigitalShift · 14 Aug 2005

I Know how it feels to try to learn so much with limited resources. So of course, I took about a 2-3 days just looking up things on the net through the almighty google (I googlelized everything with really stupid combinations to get results). Happy to say, it worked perferctly. Here is a list of sites that can help you as well as books on the subject:

General DSP

http://www.musicdsp.org/ http://www.harmony-central.com/Computer/Programming/ http://www.firstpr.com.au/dsp/pink-noise/ http://www.seamusonline.org/seamus.html http://www.amara.com/IEEEwave/IEEEwavelet.html http://www.wavelet.org/ http://www.amara.com/current/wavelet.html http://www.dspdimension.com/start.html http://www.dspguru.com/ http://www.portaudio.com/ http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/flinks_2.html http://www.audiomulch.com/~rossb/code/m ... ogramming/ http://web.media.mit.edu/~harrison/links.html http://users.iafrica.com/k/ku/kurient/dsp/effects.html http://www.eeglossary.com/sound.htm http://www.csounds.com/resources/publications.html http://clift.xs4all.nl/SEC/html/index.php http://ygrabit.steinberg.de/users/ygrabit/public_html/ http://i2pi.com/PAPERS/music-dsp/ http://www.musicdsp.org/phpWiki/index.php/MusicDspFaqs http://www.bdti.com/faq/dsp_faq.htm http://www.redcedar.com/learndsp.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr/dsp.htm http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=33 http://www.101science.com/dsp.htm http://ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/420/links.html http://www.helsinki.fi/~ssyreeni/dsound/dsound http://www.u-he.com/vstsource/ http://www.musicdsp.org/showone.php?id=169 http://www.yov408.com/html/tutorials.php?&s=80 http://www.wxwidgets.org/ http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/diy1/diy1.asp http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/docs/autodocs/index.html http://libarynth.f0.am/cgi-bin/twiki/vi ... th/WebHome http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/mus423h/ http://www.kvraudio.com/other_links.php?m=s&c=4 http://www.mindcontrol.org/~hplus/ http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.p ... &subItem=1 http://www.unibw-hamburg.de/ant/dafx200 ... index.html http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/stk/ http://www.musemagic.com/papers/DSPworld.html http://www.synthedit.com/downloads_sdk_main.htm http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/miditech.htm Books that were recommended: Advanced Signal Processing and Digital Noise Reduction ISBN: 0471626929 Applications of Digital Signal Processing to Audio and Acoustics ISBN: 0792381300 The Art of Digital Audio ISBN: 0240513207 Beyond Midi: The Handbook of Musical Codes ISBN: 0262193949 C++ Algorithms for Digital Signal Processing ISBN: 0131791443 The Computer Music Tutorial ISBN: 0262680823 A Course in Digital Signal Processing ISBN: 0471149616 Developer's Guide to Programming Sound ISBN: 0201419726 Digital Audio Signal Processing ISBN: 0471972266 Digital Signal Processing - a Computer Science Perspective ISBN: 0471295469 Digital Signal Processing Demystified ISBN: 1878707167 Digital Signal Processing and the Microcontroller ISBN: 0130813486 Discrete Time Signal Processing ISBN: 0137549202 Introduction to Signal Processing ISBN: 0132091720 Principles of Digital Audio ISBN: 0070504695 Understanding Digital Signal Processing ISBN: 0201634678 Stuff on synthesis: Additive Synthesis http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun00/a ... nthsec.htm http://www.ec.vanderbilt.edu/computermu ... hesis.html http://x2.i-dat.org/~csem/UNESCO/4/#tf http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~clark/nordmod ... k_toc.html http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... hool4.html http://www.brokengadget.co.uk/artfrm.htm http://www.ipo.tue.nl/homepages/dhermes ... thPp1.html http://wiki.tcl.tk/12176 http://jmusic.ci.qut.edu.au/jmtutorial/ ... sis_1.html http://www-camil.music.uiuc.edu/classes ... hesis.html http://www.vlabs-online.com/index.html http://www.vlabs-online.com/index.html http://csounds.com/ http://www.kfs.oeaw.ac.at/software/stx_ ... l/1201.htm http://www.cwu.edu/~compcomp/Chapter_9.html http://www.helsinki.fi/~ssyreeni/dsound/dsound-c-07 http://www.answers.com/topic/additive-synthesis http://www.searchspaniel.com/index.php/ ... _synthesis http://www.iua.upf.es/~xserra/articles/current/ http://home.echo-on.net/~quirke/synthesis/dx7.html http://www.globalmusicresource.com/hard ... ware8.html

Subtractive Synthesis - Analogue Synthesis http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Un ... nsynth.htm http://www.themusicpage.org/articles/SynthMethods.html http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~tamaras/subtracti ... hesis.html http://www.adp-gmbh.ch/csound/synth_secret.html http://www.iaekm.org/article64.htm http://www.darksonus.com/articles/synthls.html http://www.answers.com/topic/subtractive-synthesis http://www.taboramaforum.com/lofiversio ... 40558.html http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~lazzaro/sa/ ... odes/sgen/ http://www.mti.dmu.ac.uk/EARS/Data/node315.html http://w3k.org/pages/Top/Music/Computer_Music/ http://www.faqs.org/docs/sp/index.html http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial ... forbeg.asp http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_ar ... logue.html http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_ar ... logue.html http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_ar ... logue.html http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/equipmen ... synth.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Bi ... analog.htm http://www.cieonline.co.uk/cie2/article ... 87&id=2429 http://www.helpfulmusic.com/analogue%20 ... dules.html

Amplitude Modulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude_modulation http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook ... ation.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... lect92.htm http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_am.htm http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/A ... Modulation http://www.clavia.se/nordmodular/Modula ... ation.html http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_multieffects/

Frequency Modulation http://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html http://x2.i-dat.org/~csem/UNESCO/5/ http://www.fm-alive.com/fm_explained.htm http://www.ec.vanderbilt.edu/computermu ... hesis.html http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu/~adrian/F ... CSPAT.html http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~clark/nordmod ... lator.html http://www.answers.com/topic/frequency- ... -synthesis http://xenia.media.mit.edu/~gan/Gan/Edu ... 6apps.html

Granular Synthesis http://music.calarts.edu/~eric/gs.html http://homepages.kcbbs.gen.nz/gordon/granular.html http://www.sfu.ca/~truax/gran.html http://www.granularsynthesis.live.com.au/index2.html http://viswiz.gmd.de/~eckel/publication ... el95c.html http://mnorris.wellington.net.nz/soundm ... hesis.html http://www.csounds.com/ezine/winter2000/synthesis/ http://www.csl.sony.fr/General/Publicat ... 0synthesis http://www.lakewoodsound.com/csound/hyp ... siggen.htm

Hope this can help...some of these links might simply provide "some" info, but they have been helping me.

ds

caleb · 14 Aug 2005

Wow! That should be a sticky somewhere. Great collection of links. Thanks for that.

Caleb

infuzion · 15 Aug 2005

[old link] DS, could you throw the missing links here in a semi-organized fashon plz? 😇 😉

caleb · 15 Aug 2005

Don't suppose anyone can point me to a functioning link for the DSP for the Braindead?

That sounds so compelling because I actually feel totally braindead when trying to understand this stuff.

So far I've found two links - both of which did not work. I would like to have a look at this resource.

Caleb

lalo · 15 Aug 2005

here you go

http://www.biochem.oulu.fi/~oniemita/dsp/dspstuff.txt

i've read that some time ago...but is for braindead with some math knowledge about complex numbers....i really don't get the 'complex sine' thing ..my math faulty background

lalo

caleb · 15 Aug 2005

Thanks very much.

Oh shit @ complex numbers.

I have a feeling everything I read is going to make me feel incredibly stupid. Maybe I need to go back to school or something. 🙁

Caleb

platinumears · 15 Aug 2005

caleb wrote: I have a feeling everything I read is going to make me feel incredibly stupid. Maybe I need to go back to school or something. 🙁

I get that feeling regularly 😠 I still manage to build useful stuff though (IMO) so don't let it put you off!

😉

cbit · 15 Aug 2005

lalo wrote: for braindead with some math knowledge about complex numbers

lol!

skOre · 15 Aug 2005

lalo wrote: here you go

http://www.biochem.oulu.fi/~oniemita/dsp/dspstuff.txt

i've read that some time ago...but is for braindead with some math knowledge about complex numbers....i really don't get the 'complex sine' thing ..my math faulty background

lalo

Working on a more pleasant looking version of that, stay tuned, will upload as .sxw and .pdf

lalo · 15 Aug 2005

hehe....

we'd need ...a 'basic calculus for the braindead' ....and "spline interpolation for the braindead"... .."FFT math for the braindead"....

"makin' good coffee for the braindead"

lalo · 15 Aug 2005

skOre wrote: Working on a more pleasant looking version of that, stay tuned, will upload as .swx and .pdf

cool...i'm still braindead....but my eyes are still alive 😀

caleb · 15 Aug 2005

lalo wrote: hehe....

we'd need ...a 'basic calculus for the braindead' ....and "spline interpolation for the braindead"... .."FFT math for the braindead"....

"makin' good coffee for the braindead"

]

Absolutely!

I'd like to see a specialised maths volume that specialises in the maths you need to understand for exactly this kind of thing. 🙂

I would certainly like to feel less braindead as I go along.

Caleb

platinumears · 15 Aug 2005

lalo wrote: "makin' good coffee for the braindead"

I'm ok with that one! 😉

lalo · 15 Aug 2005

caleb wrote: lalo wrote: hehe....

we'd need ...a 'basic calculus for the braindead' ....and "spline interpolation for the braindead"... .."FFT math for the braindead"....

"makin' good coffee for the braindead"

]

Absolutely!

I'd like to see a specialised maths volume that specialises in the maths you need to understand for exactly this kind of thing. 🙂

I would certainly like to feel less braindead as I go along.

Caleb

me too 🙂 a DSP oriented math book.....with all the math necessary for every DSP topic... would be cool

skOre · 15 Aug 2005

Still crappy, but better changes would need ++time, so cheers:

Open Office .sxw source file Adobe .pdf

caleb · 18 Aug 2005

DigitalShift wrote: Understanding Digital Signal Processing ISBN: 0201634678

Thinking of getting this one...

The author is Richard G Lyons.

Anyone have any first or second hand experience with this book?

Caleb

caleb · 27 Aug 2005

Just purchased "Trigonometry for Dummies". Hopefully some of this maths will help me understand a few things a little better.

Caleb

lalo · 1 Sept 2005

me 'calculus for dummies' 🙂 and 'engineering mathematics' vol.1 and 2 trig.. i think i get it 🙂..more or less 😊 ..we will see.... i think calculus will be useful to some of my general compositional process..i often use some 'methode' to lead collective improvisation 🙂

a musician should be a pretty good math-man 🙂

lalo

Sk · 1 Sept 2005

Not necessarily a musician, but a synth player should 😉

lalo · 1 Sept 2005

well..it depends look at

http://www.iannis-xenakis.org/

xenakis was a big math fan in his compositions 🙂

and many composers of the so called 'new-complexity' area are very interested to math logics...

me too 🙂

i have composed some tunes for acoustic groups featuring some simple math process...and there are no electronic instruments in the ensemble....

even for writing a well balanced chord for a mixed ensemble..if you know the partial series..you gain some control 🙂

lalo

caleb · 2 Sept 2005

I was talking to an engineer friend who knows quite a bit about DSP and he said:

Algebra, Trigonometry and Calculus.

So that's probably what I'll do. I always liked Algebra and Calculus so they should be fun to refresh on. Trig for some reason I just don't remember that well - ie don't remember whether I liked it or not. I'm not sure why.

Caleb

lalo · 2 Sept 2005

caleb wrote: I was talking to an engineer friend who knows quite a bit about DSP and he said:

Algebra, Trigonometry and Calculus.

yes 🙂 'engineering mathematics' vol.1 contains them all volume 2 conains more advanced topics....

another interesting field is numerical analysis...it covers topics like interpolation (linear, polynomial, spline,..), random generation etc..

i've seen a book in Shaum series..it will be my next target... hope to get a decent math background in some month...given i've not the time to study math everyday...i have piano and ..SM to study to 🙂

stefan · 2 Sept 2005

If you're lazy and want to quickly implement some filters: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/ ... /trad.html

caleb · 2 Sept 2005

stefan wrote: If you're lazy and want to quickly implement some filters: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/ ... /trad.html

Hahaha.

That's quite an interesting tool.

I think I'll be gone from this forum and SynthMaker for a while. I don't think I should be playing with this thing too much at the moment because I'm not being terribly constructive and I don't think I'm learning that much.

I think I should get a bit of a firmer foundation as I'm just getting pointlessly frustrated with what I'm not understanding.

I will check in from time to time.

Caleb

Sk · 2 Sept 2005

stefan wrote: If you're lazy and want to quickly implement some filters: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/ ... /trad.html

Lool! I had made a similar C program for the Circuit Theory exam. That one computed the component values for an LC filter (Butterworth or Chebyshev, LP HP BP or BK). If anyone was interested in making real filters "the old way", just ask me 😉

skOre · 2 Sept 2005

I would be interested in having that page put out SM-Code 😀

stefan · 2 Sept 2005

skOre wrote: I would be interested in having that page put out SM-Code 😀

well... the c code it puts out is almost copy-pasteable 🙂 I used a chebychev filter as a downsampling filter in an oscillator I fiddled with today, worked like a charm 🙂

ake · 14 Sept 2005

If you want to experiment this might be usefull

http://www.scilab.org/

There is manual for use in DSP in the (old) documents section

ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Scilab/documentation/pdf/signal.pdf

Edit:

There is an introduction here

http://www.springeronline.com/sgw/cda/pageitems/document/cda_downloaddocument/0,11996,0-0-45-159475-0,00.pdf

Åke

ake · 24 Sept 2005

Maybe interesting

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/intro320/Lecture_Outline_Schedule_Assignments.html

http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/

Åke

posh · 30 Dec 2005

speaking of filters: Filter Explorer by Tobybear, anyone?

Borogove · 31 Dec 2005

Musical Applications of Microprocessors by Hal Chamberlin

An oldie, but a goodie - written in mid-80s, covers the basics of digital signal processing, design of analog synth modules with an eye towards digital control, presents various digital effect designs (filters, reverbs, etc). A number of pages are spent on obsolete assembly language (6502, 68000) and amusingly ancient "state of the art", but this is my foundation in DSP.

Amazon will hook you up.

subrock · 29 Jun 2006

Yeap, that curtis roads book is pretty excellent. Seems to be a standard around here in the computer music circle. I think the most imprtant thing you have to do before diving into DSP is to make sure you have a good understanding of how computers work, especially in terms of how they handle audio. I was in your same boat a couple of years ago and I did it the wrong way by trying to do DSP without the basic foundations. After taking a class on computer music, I now have the basic knowledge to go through a DSP textbook without going "what the hell?".