Synthmaker, perhaps the perfect replacement for Kompakt?

infuzion · 9 Jun 2011

Hey Astro, welcome to SM-land! Are you on sideways5?

Cyforce · 9 Jun 2011

Synthmaker will be defintiv not a replacement for Kompakt. Just based on the platforms, possibilities and cpu usage. Also if Synthmaker 2.0 supports SFZ, but if a raw SFZ osc eats through his architecture inside synthmaker 3-5% cpu, well than if this new great feature nearly useless. Imagine a 4 layer design, there would coming up to 20% cpu (on a good cpu...) only for playing the samples. And many many other things which are easy to handle in the C++ world are sometimes not possible inside synthmaker or only on high cpu cost.

So if you search something like a sample-player, perhaps you should take a look on WusikStation.

Astronaut59 · 9 Jun 2011

infuzion wrote: Hey Astro, welcome to SM-land! Are you on sideways5?

Hi Infuzion, Thank you. Regarding SW5, seems like there are a few cool folks on there, though, these days, I try to stay off most music (+ gear related) message boards. It's too easy to get sucked in... More power to you if it's your thing.

Cheers,

Astronaut59 · 9 Jun 2011

Cyforce wrote: Synthmaker will be defintiv not a replacement for Kompakt. Just based on the platforms, possibilities and cpu usage. Also if Synthmaker 2.0 supports SFZ, but if a raw SFZ osc eats through his architecture inside synthmaker 3-5% cpu, well than if this new great feature nearly useless. Imagine a 4 layer design, there would coming up to 20% cpu (on a good cpu...) only for playing the samples. And many many other things which are easy to handle in the C++ world are sometimes not possible inside synthmaker or only on high cpu cost.

Interesting thoughts on CPU usage. Just as one data point -- Because of your post, I just tested a few plug-ins -- I'm at about 1.8% CPU (all-in) on my simple SM mock-up SFZ synth (nothing fancy: just a simple POC w/ a few basic effects and filters) on my i5 laptop. I'm pretty content with that benchmark, though, I'm sure it might grow exponentially with multiple sfz instances...

As just a random thought, almost all my NI plug-ins seem to be major CPU hogs... So, it seems like some commercial manufacturers don't seem too concerned with CPU usage... Though, it is certainly a concern for me. On another note, the SM mock-up loads and switches SFZ patches noticeably quicker than Kontakt loads nki patches (for me, at least).

Cheers,

infuzion · 9 Jun 2011

CPU in SM for audio code can be comparable to C++ if not slightly faster, if you hand-optimize ASM in SM.

Cyforce · 10 Jun 2011

Astronaut59 wrote: Interesting thoughts on CPU usage. Just as one data point -- Because of your post, I just tested a few plug-ins -- I'm at about 1.8% CPU (all-in) on my simple SM mock-up SFZ synth (nothing fancy: just a simple POC w/ a few basic effects and filters) on my i5 laptop. I'm pretty content with that benchmark, though, I'm sure it might grow exponentially with multiple sfz instances...

As just a random thought, almost all my NI plug-ins seem to be major CPU hogs... So, it seems like some commercial manufacturers don't seem too concerned with CPU usage... Though, it is certainly a concern for me. On another note, the SM mock-up loads and switches SFZ patches noticeably quicker than Kontakt loads nki patches (for me, at least).

Cheers,

On my i7 920, with 512 sample buffer tc audio interface, i get with the stocked sfz modul only ~4-5% - logical it belongs also to the sfz a little bit.

Astronaut59 · 11 Jun 2011

Cyforce wrote: On my i7 920, with 512 sample buffer tc audio interface, i get with the stocked sfz modul only ~4-5% - logical it belongs also to the sfz a little bit.

Hi Cyforce, I appreciate your testing and feedback. Now that I go back and test, playing chords with the sfz player + filters + delay + reverb, i'm at about 4-9% cpu all-in (according to SM's built in cpu meter).

Best Regards,

trogluddite · 11 Jun 2011

Astronaut59 wrote: i'm at about 4-9% cpu all-in (according to SM's built in cpu meter).

Which may be even better than you think - SM is resolutely 'one CPU core only', so the built in meter shows only the CPU usage of the core on which it is running; though it's worth noting that it only shows the usage of the audio streams - the usage of the 'Green' and GUI isn't indicated (GUI usage can sometimes be rather high e.g. for animated automation replay etc.)

Astronaut59 · 11 Jun 2011

trogluddite wrote: Astronaut59 wrote: i'm at about 4-9% cpu all-in (according to SM's built in cpu meter).

Which may be even better than you think - SM is resolutely 'one CPU core only', so the built in meter shows only the CPU usage of the core on which it is running;

That is good to know, thank you.

Just for fun, as another test today -- I was running a demo in ableton just now with + 1 instance of Massive + 1 instance of Kontakt running a 2 gig instrument + 1 instance of Nexus + 2 instances of a simple SM sfz demo + Tons of the built-in ableton effects + 2 Audio tracks

And didn't see any slowdown or problems (which could be a testament to the programming of the other synths involved). So, it seems that a SM SFZ based plug-in can work well with other synths, or at least leave enough CPU to not completely choke other soft synths or the host ...

I'll probably buy a copy of SM just to support the developers (I don't know if I'll end up using it for anything other than mock-ups), but, I am fairly impressed with it and it seems like you guys have a very nice community here overall.

I appreciate everyone's help...

Lui · 15 Jun 2011

hey astronaut 59, i'm also trying to build me some kind of rompler with synthmaker. i'm just starting out and i have absolutely no experience in programming. would you do me the big favor to share the .osm file of the sfz-player you created so i can get a little insight in how to build one? thanks, lui

Astronaut59 · 16 Jun 2011

Lui wrote: hey astronaut 59, i'm also trying to build me some kind of rompler with synthmaker. i'm just starting out and i have absolutely no experience in programming. would you do me the big favor to share the .osm file of the sfz-player you created so i can get a little insight in how to build one? thanks, lui

Hi Lui, I just built a simple working mock-up using the standard SM components, no big secret. If you're following the tutorials, basically just use the 'Multi-Sample' component instead of a standard oscillator.

As far as converting your samples and/or instruments to a format that SM can use, I'd recommend first building your instrument how you normally would with Kontakt or EXS (or whatever sample program you use), then use a sample converter (Extreme Sample Converter (http://www.extranslator.com/) works great)) to convert your instruments to SFZ.

Then you'll be good to go (just load the SFZ into your Multi-Sample component and rebuild the effects using SM's effects). Also a tip, if you're using Kontakt, save your instruments in version 3 or older before converting to SFZ (version 4 doesn't translate as easily to SFZ, for me anyways).

Hope that helps, Cheers,

Nu Audio Science · 21 Jun 2011

The default SFZ set up in SM is not the best set up 😉 It can be optomised and customised heavily to reduce CPU massively

vstsound · 23 Oct 2011

Astronaut59 wrote: Hi All, I just wanted to share some of my findings on some research we've been doing the last couple of weeks. Some friends and I have been developing some original Kontakt instruments and were looking for a player we could distribute with our instruments (to not limit our audience to just Kontakt owners). As most of you know, NI used to offer a player license (Kompakt), but, now, it is no longer available to smaller developers.

So, we have been testing out both SynthEdit & Synthmaker (I'm a former ((recovering)) C++ developer, so, I was really excited to try SE). What we found is that SE sounded rather dull compared to our original kontakt instruments, but, synthmaker's SFZ player was able to recreate our kontakt instruments PERFECTLY - Loop points, Crossfades, Velocity Layers, etc AND it even loaded the instruments faster than Kontakt 4.2 on our test machines!

To the SM developers- Great job, first of all. Also, it seems like there would be a HUGE opportunity to market to sound makers, pushing Synthmaker as a replacement for Kompakt. With just a couple of improvements (64 Bit and VST3 support- I'm not even really concerned about OSX, if you just let us hit all the Windows platforms with complete compatibility, I'd be a happy camper) I'd gladly cut you a check for twice what you are currently asking for Synthmaker today. I think most professional sound designers wouldn't balk at paying $300-500 for a Synth Maker license with those features added as it would allow them to distribute their Kontakt & EXS instruments to a much greater audience. Heck, I'll go on record saying that I'll pay that if those features are added...

Anyways, Just wanted to share our humble opinions and praise for Synth Maker... it is amazing at reproducing Kontakt instruments and with a few compatibility issues, I think it could revolutionize the industry... Hopefully the developers choose to continue development, I really look forward to exploring future versions.

Cheers,

I agree with you. It would be super if SynthMaker will be added to such a possibility. I also pay 2 times greater than 100% if you add this feature. I promise.